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	<title>Comments on: Only Happy When It Rains</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html</link>
	<description>Challenging Climate Orthodoxy</description>
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		<title>By: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-732</link>
		<dc:creator>George Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 11:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-732</guid>
		<description>Aren&#039;t &quot;eco-towns&quot; missing the point in a big way?  Relying on unreliable wind and solar power for electricity, and lacking access to mains water would be highly undesirable for normal people (as opposed to hairshirt eco-maniacs).  However, supplying mains water isn&#039;t a really big user of energy anyway!

For most people, the biggest users of energy are heating (or air conditioning in warmer climates) and transportation -- this suggests most environmentally-friendly way to live is in a flat in an inner-city location.  A flat takes much less energy to heat that a house, both because the flat itself is smaller, and because the entire building is much larger, so it has less surface area (from which heat can escape) relative to its volume.  The limited available space means less temptation to accumulate large quantities of consumer junk, and inner-city people are less likely to need cars than suburban people, as the high density of development means amenities are more likely to be in walking distance and that public transport is likely to be much more useful.

The original New Towns were intended to be relatively self-sufficient, with companies choosing to locate there as there was more room to develop than in older towns and cities.  In this respect they were a failure, as most New Towns ended up as little more than dormitory communities whose residents commute to jobs in older towns and cities.  If the new eco-towns have the same problem, the consequences are likely to be even worse, as they (unlike the original New Towns) were engineered to make car usage more difficult.

Perhaps planned settlements are in general a bad idea, because they often lack an economic raison d&#039;etre (&quot;jobs&quot; in layman&#039;s terms).  One possible exception would be planned &lt;i&gt;capital cities&lt;/i&gt; (such as Washington DC, Brasilia or Islamabad), because a capital city naturally has one huge employer already (the central government).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aren&#8217;t &#8220;eco-towns&#8221; missing the point in a big way?  Relying on unreliable wind and solar power for electricity, and lacking access to mains water would be highly undesirable for normal people (as opposed to hairshirt eco-maniacs).  However, supplying mains water isn&#8217;t a really big user of energy anyway!</p>
<p>For most people, the biggest users of energy are heating (or air conditioning in warmer climates) and transportation &#8212; this suggests most environmentally-friendly way to live is in a flat in an inner-city location.  A flat takes much less energy to heat that a house, both because the flat itself is smaller, and because the entire building is much larger, so it has less surface area (from which heat can escape) relative to its volume.  The limited available space means less temptation to accumulate large quantities of consumer junk, and inner-city people are less likely to need cars than suburban people, as the high density of development means amenities are more likely to be in walking distance and that public transport is likely to be much more useful.</p>
<p>The original New Towns were intended to be relatively self-sufficient, with companies choosing to locate there as there was more room to develop than in older towns and cities.  In this respect they were a failure, as most New Towns ended up as little more than dormitory communities whose residents commute to jobs in older towns and cities.  If the new eco-towns have the same problem, the consequences are likely to be even worse, as they (unlike the original New Towns) were engineered to make car usage more difficult.</p>
<p>Perhaps planned settlements are in general a bad idea, because they often lack an economic raison d&#8217;etre (&#8220;jobs&#8221; in layman&#8217;s terms).  One possible exception would be planned <i>capital cities</i> (such as Washington DC, Brasilia or Islamabad), because a capital city naturally has one huge employer already (the central government).</p>
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		<title>By: geoff chambers</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-731</link>
		<dc:creator>geoff chambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-731</guid>
		<description>Stefan, I couldn’t agree more that the popularity of anti-rational philosophies is behind the appeal of environmentalism. Feeding the starving or limiting the spread of AIDS requires knowledge of economics, agronomy, epidemiology - hard stuff, while saving the planet can be done with the right attitude and a dainty carbon footprint. The genius of the Global Warming establishment has been to provide this sizeable section of the public with a scientific (and therefore authoritative) rationale for beliefs which boil down to little more than a vague desire to keep the world nice, amplified by obsessional anxiety, and somehow (but how?) transformed into a political programme which threatens to reverse the direction of history.
Talisker, yes I have enough maths to be able to read a graph. Trouble is, the graphs I read aren’t being published in the mainstream press, so only we sceptics/deniers have seen them. I’d like to see an explanation of that which isn’t a conspiracy theory</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stefan, I couldn’t agree more that the popularity of anti-rational philosophies is behind the appeal of environmentalism. Feeding the starving or limiting the spread of AIDS requires knowledge of economics, agronomy, epidemiology &#8211; hard stuff, while saving the planet can be done with the right attitude and a dainty carbon footprint. The genius of the Global Warming establishment has been to provide this sizeable section of the public with a scientific (and therefore authoritative) rationale for beliefs which boil down to little more than a vague desire to keep the world nice, amplified by obsessional anxiety, and somehow (but how?) transformed into a political programme which threatens to reverse the direction of history.<br />
Talisker, yes I have enough maths to be able to read a graph. Trouble is, the graphs I read aren’t being published in the mainstream press, so only we sceptics/deniers have seen them. I’d like to see an explanation of that which isn’t a conspiracy theory</p>
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		<title>By: John Bailo</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>John Bailo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-730</guid>
		<description>A lot of the &quot;population growth&quot; has actually been through immigration.   Here in Seattle, for example, the Demolib leadership sold the entire region a package of big budget spending with the presumption that 1990s growth would continue for the 21st century.

But, guess what?  Immigration has gone to zero.   Mexicans have reduced their birth rate from 6 to 2 and are staying home where opportunities have been increasing.

Does this let the Lib Planners made changes?

No...they turn a deaf eye to the data (as always) and continue to berate the voters with even more big budget, high density projects that will bankrupt the region if not voted down!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of the &#8220;population growth&#8221; has actually been through immigration.   Here in Seattle, for example, the Demolib leadership sold the entire region a package of big budget spending with the presumption that 1990s growth would continue for the 21st century.</p>
<p>But, guess what?  Immigration has gone to zero.   Mexicans have reduced their birth rate from 6 to 2 and are staying home where opportunities have been increasing.</p>
<p>Does this let the Lib Planners made changes?</p>
<p>No&#8230;they turn a deaf eye to the data (as always) and continue to berate the voters with even more big budget, high density projects that will bankrupt the region if not voted down!</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-729</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-729</guid>
		<description>&quot;but I can’t see anything in recent history on this scale. Nuclear deterrence, reaganomics, communism; name any flawed idea you like; none of them denied reality to this extent&quot;

There has been a trend in recent decades--Eastern spirituality came to the West and hippies created their own interpretation--towards believing that it is wrong to intellectualize. It is a highly stupid idea, but nonetheless, many people have come to believe that the intellect does not give good results, rather, it is more important to feel, to intuit, to visualize, than it is to examine things under the light of reason. Reason is seen as cold and impersonal, whilst ecology is seen as something that you have to feel, to become joined with, to &quot;go with the flow&quot;, to let your intuition guide you, and so on.

It was highly amusing to see it mentioned in a BBC article about Doctors&#039; private jargon used in medical notes: they sometimes jot down &quot;GROLIES&quot;,  meaning &quot;Guardian Reader Of Low Intelligence in Ethnic Skirt&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but I can’t see anything in recent history on this scale. Nuclear deterrence, reaganomics, communism; name any flawed idea you like; none of them denied reality to this extent&#8221;</p>
<p>There has been a trend in recent decades&#8211;Eastern spirituality came to the West and hippies created their own interpretation&#8211;towards believing that it is wrong to intellectualize. It is a highly stupid idea, but nonetheless, many people have come to believe that the intellect does not give good results, rather, it is more important to feel, to intuit, to visualize, than it is to examine things under the light of reason. Reason is seen as cold and impersonal, whilst ecology is seen as something that you have to feel, to become joined with, to &#8220;go with the flow&#8221;, to let your intuition guide you, and so on.</p>
<p>It was highly amusing to see it mentioned in a BBC article about Doctors&#8217; private jargon used in medical notes: they sometimes jot down &#8220;GROLIES&#8221;,  meaning &#8220;Guardian Reader Of Low Intelligence in Ethnic Skirt&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: geoff chambers</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-728</link>
		<dc:creator>geoff chambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-728</guid>
		<description>Sorry, you’re right, I am confused. If I address my confusion to you it’s because yours is the only site I know which attempts intelligent analysis of  the political and media side of the AGW movement, (others do an excellent job of the scientific side). So why do I continually feel that you (and I and everyone else) are somehow missing the point?
I stick to my point that the eco towns are apparently seen as vote winners; look at the enthusiasm of the resident quoted and the readiness of the journalist to quote him with a straight face. Of course your analysis of the emptiness of modern political discourse as the reason  for the popularity of the AGW message is spot on. But don’t you feel you’re continually attacking the symptoms of something whose nature escapes us? I call it “mass hysteria” or mass displacement activity”, aware that giving it a psychological label doesn’t advance things much. It would be nice if some historical comparisons could help us, but I can’t  see anything in recent history on this scale. Nuclear deterrence, reaganomics, communism; name any flawed idea you like; none of them denied reality to this extent; none were adopted by the entire western world; and all provoked reasoned opposition.
I know you do a good job of knocking Monbiot and all the others. If I mention him, it’s because he seems to me occupy a key position in winning over the chattering classes. He’s obviously intelligent, well-read, courageous on certain issues, the kind of journalist a Guardian reader trusts. So when he refuses to discuss the science, it’s not from ignorance or intellectual laziness. He’s lying in order to keep the ignorant masses in line. This would be natural behaviour in a politician, but is disgraceful in a journalist.  My hope is that the Guardian (which is a broader church than simply its environment pages) or some other news source will arrange a real debate one day. Maybe you’ll be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, you’re right, I am confused. If I address my confusion to you it’s because yours is the only site I know which attempts intelligent analysis of  the political and media side of the AGW movement, (others do an excellent job of the scientific side). So why do I continually feel that you (and I and everyone else) are somehow missing the point?<br />
I stick to my point that the eco towns are apparently seen as vote winners; look at the enthusiasm of the resident quoted and the readiness of the journalist to quote him with a straight face. Of course your analysis of the emptiness of modern political discourse as the reason  for the popularity of the AGW message is spot on. But don’t you feel you’re continually attacking the symptoms of something whose nature escapes us? I call it “mass hysteria” or mass displacement activity”, aware that giving it a psychological label doesn’t advance things much. It would be nice if some historical comparisons could help us, but I can’t  see anything in recent history on this scale. Nuclear deterrence, reaganomics, communism; name any flawed idea you like; none of them denied reality to this extent; none were adopted by the entire western world; and all provoked reasoned opposition.<br />
I know you do a good job of knocking Monbiot and all the others. If I mention him, it’s because he seems to me occupy a key position in winning over the chattering classes. He’s obviously intelligent, well-read, courageous on certain issues, the kind of journalist a Guardian reader trusts. So when he refuses to discuss the science, it’s not from ignorance or intellectual laziness. He’s lying in order to keep the ignorant masses in line. This would be natural behaviour in a politician, but is disgraceful in a journalist.  My hope is that the Guardian (which is a broader church than simply its environment pages) or some other news source will arrange a real debate one day. Maybe you’ll be there.</p>
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		<title>By: talisker</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-727</link>
		<dc:creator>talisker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 08:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-727</guid>
		<description>Geoff - do you have O-level maths by any chance? If so, why leave it to others to demolish this vast conspiracy of lies? You could be just the man for the job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff &#8211; do you have O-level maths by any chance? If so, why leave it to others to demolish this vast conspiracy of lies? You could be just the man for the job!</p>
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		<title>By: Editors</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-726</link>
		<dc:creator>Editors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-726</guid>
		<description>Geoff.

While you might be confused about the post above, we are equally confused about your comment.

Eco-towns aren&#039;t the expression of individuals making choices about where and how they live. Eco-towns are the UK government&#039;s response to the housing shortage (largely a product of its own short-sightedness) and the demands of the environmental values it has attached itself to. LLB think that Eco-homes will make people happier. For those who have designed their own eco-homes, perhaps this is the case. For the people who will be placed into low-cost, mass produced eco-homes, there will be little choice about the way they live their lives. As we have said before, what are being created are eco-slums. Eco towns are not merely epiphenomena. Looking at them gives us an opportunity to try to understand why the Government has absorbed environmental rhetoric. Our argument is that environmentalism is not prolific because of its own momentum, so to speak. Instead, what’s driving the rise of green ideas is the establishment’s need for them. As we say in our introduction ‘Exaggerated environmental concern is merely serving to provide direction for directionless politics.’

You say that we should be engaging with the producer of ‘Earth: The climate Wars’ on Commentisfree. But we already have – our post on the film was cited by Renouf, and linked to in his post. My article on Spiked about the film was also linked to by one of the commenters there.

And where has this stuff about not challenging the likes on Monbiot come from? We’re always on about Monbiot! We’re bored of Monbiot! And Lynas, who is no less a figure in the Green movement, and is the subject of our last-but-one posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff.</p>
<p>While you might be confused about the post above, we are equally confused about your comment.</p>
<p>Eco-towns aren&#8217;t the expression of individuals making choices about where and how they live. Eco-towns are the UK government&#8217;s response to the housing shortage (largely a product of its own short-sightedness) and the demands of the environmental values it has attached itself to. LLB think that Eco-homes will make people happier. For those who have designed their own eco-homes, perhaps this is the case. For the people who will be placed into low-cost, mass produced eco-homes, there will be little choice about the way they live their lives. As we have said before, what are being created are eco-slums. Eco towns are not merely epiphenomena. Looking at them gives us an opportunity to try to understand why the Government has absorbed environmental rhetoric. Our argument is that environmentalism is not prolific because of its own momentum, so to speak. Instead, what’s driving the rise of green ideas is the establishment’s need for them. As we say in our introduction ‘Exaggerated environmental concern is merely serving to provide direction for directionless politics.’</p>
<p>You say that we should be engaging with the producer of ‘Earth: The climate Wars’ on Commentisfree. But we already have – our post on the film was cited by Renouf, and linked to in his post. My article on Spiked about the film was also linked to by one of the commenters there.</p>
<p>And where has this stuff about not challenging the likes on Monbiot come from? We’re always on about Monbiot! We’re bored of Monbiot! And Lynas, who is no less a figure in the Green movement, and is the subject of our last-but-one posts.</p>
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		<title>By: geoff chambers</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-725</link>
		<dc:creator>geoff chambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-725</guid>
		<description>I’m not sure what is the point of this article. So, there are people who think that by crapping onto reed mats, they can save polar bears from drowning, and there’s a building company ready to provide them with the requisite facilities to satisfy their wants. That’s fine by me. I’m happy with people holding beliefs which I don’t share, whether its dangerous global warming or guardian angels; (incidentally, lots of people believe in guardian angels or UFOs, so why is nobody building houses with landing strips on the roof?).
It’s when their beliefs start to impinge on my life that I start to worry; when a light bulb I need for my work becomes illegal; when the disposable razor for my delicate skin or my cheap flight home to Blighty is threatened with punitive taxes in order to protect undefined species from extermination; and when media like the Guardian and the BBC find all this more important than the current economic crisis. Then I turn to Climate Resistance  for aid and intellectual  sustenance, and, I’m left wondering why you seem to be devoting your energies to criticising epiphenomena like ecohousing, when there are barn doors to be broken down which could make a real difference, which could save us from catastrophic  policies based on nothing but mass hysteria.
Public opinion in Britain is formed largely by the BBC plus four “quality” newspapers, two at least  of which are engaged in an Orwellian propaganda campaign in defence of a theory which is propagated by the UN, the G8, the EU, and all  three major political parties in Britain, and yet which is demonstrably false.The Guardian of 3rd October has no less than five articles on Climate Change, all supporting insane, suicidal political action based on pseudo-scientific arguments which anyone with O-level maths could demolish.
 AGM advocates rarely engage in debate. Monbiot has done so, to his credit, silencing Monckton  by accusing him of telling fibs on his website, and Alexander Cockburn by accusing him of quoting a far right source. He’s just demolished Christopher Booker’s credibility using the hockeystick gambit - (“my honourable friend talks a lot of rubbish about asbestos (tree rings), and what’s more he’s against AGW” (recent warming, arbitrarily tacked on). These are McCarthyite tactics, and they need confronting.
I recommend your readers to follow the comments on the recent Guardian article “The Battle caused by Climate Wars”, a defence of the BBC programme by its producer. After hundreds of hysterical blogs defending global warming, three or four bloggers calmly point out that the emperor is naked, temperatures are not going up. It’s not quite Socratic dialogue, but it’s great theatre.  It’s time someone took on the opinion leaders like Monbiot. Do a Marquess of Queensbury on him. Go ad hominem. Do it Climate Resistance, take them on. We’re behind you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not sure what is the point of this article. So, there are people who think that by crapping onto reed mats, they can save polar bears from drowning, and there’s a building company ready to provide them with the requisite facilities to satisfy their wants. That’s fine by me. I’m happy with people holding beliefs which I don’t share, whether its dangerous global warming or guardian angels; (incidentally, lots of people believe in guardian angels or UFOs, so why is nobody building houses with landing strips on the roof?).<br />
It’s when their beliefs start to impinge on my life that I start to worry; when a light bulb I need for my work becomes illegal; when the disposable razor for my delicate skin or my cheap flight home to Blighty is threatened with punitive taxes in order to protect undefined species from extermination; and when media like the Guardian and the BBC find all this more important than the current economic crisis. Then I turn to Climate Resistance  for aid and intellectual  sustenance, and, I’m left wondering why you seem to be devoting your energies to criticising epiphenomena like ecohousing, when there are barn doors to be broken down which could make a real difference, which could save us from catastrophic  policies based on nothing but mass hysteria.<br />
Public opinion in Britain is formed largely by the BBC plus four “quality” newspapers, two at least  of which are engaged in an Orwellian propaganda campaign in defence of a theory which is propagated by the UN, the G8, the EU, and all  three major political parties in Britain, and yet which is demonstrably false.The Guardian of 3rd October has no less than five articles on Climate Change, all supporting insane, suicidal political action based on pseudo-scientific arguments which anyone with O-level maths could demolish.<br />
 AGM advocates rarely engage in debate. Monbiot has done so, to his credit, silencing Monckton  by accusing him of telling fibs on his website, and Alexander Cockburn by accusing him of quoting a far right source. He’s just demolished Christopher Booker’s credibility using the hockeystick gambit &#8211; (“my honourable friend talks a lot of rubbish about asbestos (tree rings), and what’s more he’s against AGW” (recent warming, arbitrarily tacked on). These are McCarthyite tactics, and they need confronting.<br />
I recommend your readers to follow the comments on the recent Guardian article “The Battle caused by Climate Wars”, a defence of the BBC programme by its producer. After hundreds of hysterical blogs defending global warming, three or four bloggers calmly point out that the emperor is naked, temperatures are not going up. It’s not quite Socratic dialogue, but it’s great theatre.  It’s time someone took on the opinion leaders like Monbiot. Do a Marquess of Queensbury on him. Go ad hominem. Do it Climate Resistance, take them on. We’re behind you.</p>
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		<title>By: No Plaice pike home</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-724</link>
		<dc:creator>No Plaice pike home</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-724</guid>
		<description>Of course it would have been a bit more eco to do there own bloody hedging rather then drive students in but perhaps all the chopping and recycling and eco-ing and whatnot gets tedious after a bit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course it would have been a bit more eco to do there own bloody hedging rather then drive students in but perhaps all the chopping and recycling and eco-ing and whatnot gets tedious after a bit</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2008/10/only-happy-when-it-rains.html#comment-723</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=221#comment-723</guid>
		<description>&quot;So, now we really are talking about something close to zero-carbon living&quot; says Caroline Flint clearly ignorant that, if expiration ceases so does living.

Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So, now we really are talking about something close to zero-carbon living&#8221; says Caroline Flint clearly ignorant that, if expiration ceases so does living.</p>
<p>Rich</p>
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