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	<title>Comments on: Unsustain-Nobility</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html</link>
	<description>Challenging Climate Orthodoxy</description>
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		<title>By: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1449</link>
		<dc:creator>George Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1449</guid>
		<description>Glad to see you back Ben!

Naturally, it&#039;s far easier to be a reactionary environmentalist if you can plausibly see your place in the new order as that of an aristocrat, rather than that of a die-off victim or (at best) an illiterate peasant.

While the prince may have a problem with abundance, I very much doubt that the huge number of people who share his hostility to modernist architecture have this motivation.  Instead, people prefer traditional architecture because of its fractal geometric character resembling the natural world, as opposed to the simplistic geometric forms of modernism, which are psychologically unsettling because such forms only occur in nature on very small scales (such as crystals) or enormous scales (such as planets and stars), not on objects of comparable size to buildings.

One can note that in pre-modern times, the only buildings constructed in simple geometric shapes were those that were supposed to be intimidating -- either tombs (the Pyramids are the canonical example, but this &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonbad-e_Qabus&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;tomb of a tenth-century Iranian warlord&lt;/a&gt; looks eerily like a Brutalist tower), or military fortifications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see you back Ben!</p>
<p>Naturally, it&#8217;s far easier to be a reactionary environmentalist if you can plausibly see your place in the new order as that of an aristocrat, rather than that of a die-off victim or (at best) an illiterate peasant.</p>
<p>While the prince may have a problem with abundance, I very much doubt that the huge number of people who share his hostility to modernist architecture have this motivation.  Instead, people prefer traditional architecture because of its fractal geometric character resembling the natural world, as opposed to the simplistic geometric forms of modernism, which are psychologically unsettling because such forms only occur in nature on very small scales (such as crystals) or enormous scales (such as planets and stars), not on objects of comparable size to buildings.</p>
<p>One can note that in pre-modern times, the only buildings constructed in simple geometric shapes were those that were supposed to be intimidating &#8212; either tombs (the Pyramids are the canonical example, but this <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonbad-e_Qabus" rel="nofollow">tomb of a tenth-century Iranian warlord</a> looks eerily like a Brutalist tower), or military fortifications.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Pile</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1448</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Pile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1448</guid>
		<description>George... I always wondered... now why would a relic of feudalism be so interested in feudal modes of production?

Does the prince object to modernist architecture because of its utility or its aesthetics? That is to say, is he against modernism because he&#039;s terrified by abundance? After all, what role is there for a monarch in an era of plenty?

What I find most fascinating is that protocol prohibits him from making political statements; yet his environmentalism -- which seems to be precisely a political statement -- goes unchallenged.

As for modernism; I quite like a lot of it. Some of those old tower blocks have spectacular views. It&#039;s not for everyone of course, but neither is the &#039;conservation&#039; of so much of &#039;our&#039; &#039;heritage&#039;. I, for one, would be quite happy to see a lot of &#039;old&#039; and &#039;green&#039; stuff get knocked down for some more intensive development; I can&#039;t even afford to live in a tower block. Wasn&#039;t the real problem with that modernism, not that it was ugly, but that the attempt was to design more than a place to live -- a way of living which failed -- concentrating people in new developments, isolating some, and concentrating others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George&#8230; I always wondered&#8230; now why would a relic of feudalism be so interested in feudal modes of production?</p>
<p>Does the prince object to modernist architecture because of its utility or its aesthetics? That is to say, is he against modernism because he&#8217;s terrified by abundance? After all, what role is there for a monarch in an era of plenty?</p>
<p>What I find most fascinating is that protocol prohibits him from making political statements; yet his environmentalism &#8212; which seems to be precisely a political statement &#8212; goes unchallenged.</p>
<p>As for modernism; I quite like a lot of it. Some of those old tower blocks have spectacular views. It&#8217;s not for everyone of course, but neither is the &#8216;conservation&#8217; of so much of &#8216;our&#8217; &#8216;heritage&#8217;. I, for one, would be quite happy to see a lot of &#8216;old&#8217; and &#8216;green&#8217; stuff get knocked down for some more intensive development; I can&#8217;t even afford to live in a tower block. Wasn&#8217;t the real problem with that modernism, not that it was ugly, but that the attempt was to design more than a place to live &#8212; a way of living which failed &#8212; concentrating people in new developments, isolating some, and concentrating others.</p>
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		<title>By: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1447</link>
		<dc:creator>George Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1447</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Prince Charles, I got his book &lt;i&gt;Harmony&lt;/i&gt; for Christmas (probably because I&#039;d mentioned that I agreed with his opposition to modernist architecture), but when I read it I found myself chilled to the core.  (Especially the bits on organic farming -- I was practically screaming ORGANIC FARMING CANNOT SUPPORT OUR PRESENT PLANETARY POPULATION!)

As for architecture, I now think it is a case of &quot;a knackered clock is still right twice a day&quot;.  My view is that modernist architecture served a real need in the first half of the twentieth century (as rural-to-urban migration of unprecedented speed had trapped millions in filthy overcrowded slums, creating a need to build as quickly as possible), but should now be abandoned due its ugliness (at least in the First World -- it may be a good idea in today&#039;s Third World cities for the same reason that it was a good idea in Western cities a century ago).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Prince Charles, I got his book <i>Harmony</i> for Christmas (probably because I&#8217;d mentioned that I agreed with his opposition to modernist architecture), but when I read it I found myself chilled to the core.  (Especially the bits on organic farming &#8212; I was practically screaming ORGANIC FARMING CANNOT SUPPORT OUR PRESENT PLANETARY POPULATION!)</p>
<p>As for architecture, I now think it is a case of &#8220;a knackered clock is still right twice a day&#8221;.  My view is that modernist architecture served a real need in the first half of the twentieth century (as rural-to-urban migration of unprecedented speed had trapped millions in filthy overcrowded slums, creating a need to build as quickly as possible), but should now be abandoned due its ugliness (at least in the First World &#8212; it may be a good idea in today&#8217;s Third World cities for the same reason that it was a good idea in Western cities a century ago).</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Phillifent</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1446</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Phillifent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1446</guid>
		<description>HRH Prince Charles(or  PRINCE PLONKER as he is better known in the UK.) has been getting a bad press lately. His latest wife - his long term mistress Camilla - is thoroughly detrested by the majority of the British people. In fact the &quot;legality&quot; of his marriage to her is under question - the   documentation on the legality or otherwise having been locked away for about 75 years ie,. his marriage is NOT legal!

He rambles on about &quot; saving the envirinment&quot; but actually acts like some medieval absolute monarch in his little universe at Highgrove where he engages in &quot;organic gardening&quot; - well no,he talks about it others, the serfs, do it!  He employs umpteen hangers on and flunkeys to attend to his every wish - cooks galore, servants etc. - saving the environment is dead easy when you&#039;re stinking rich. His potty Company&quot;Duchy Originals &quot;- 2nd. grade food at  premium prices - had to be rescued by a UK supermarket chain.

He engages in dangerous liasons with foreign dictators , principally from the Middle East, who  removed their support from an important building project in London.

He writes boring missives to Government ministers on things he knows absolutely nothing about.

He wanders around in a semi-threadbare camel coat looking like some superannuated bookie and has the annoying and very rude habit of wandering around with his (delicate ) hands stuck in his pockets!

He is a great advocate of quack medicine, such as homeopathy but   he needs to increase his dosage because when he speaks he appears to be suffering from some chronic form of constipation!

He is surrounded by a collection of fawning sycophants, who according to the latest reports think he is &quot;potty&quot; (which is correct) but they  daren&#039;t tell him that he is a complete idiot as they fear for their cushy 6-figure jobs!

In brief he is an indulged and indulgent spoilt little brat and my long term wish and hope is that somebody tells him so and reiniforces the statement with a  knuckle sandwich. He is the  very mirror image of his great uncle - the vile Duke of Windsor - and I suggest he keeps mouth shut because he  seems to be one of nature&#039;s great &quot;peculiars&quot; in that his mouth and backside have be interposed because when he opens the  former we all know what comes out of it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HRH Prince Charles(or  PRINCE PLONKER as he is better known in the UK.) has been getting a bad press lately. His latest wife &#8211; his long term mistress Camilla &#8211; is thoroughly detrested by the majority of the British people. In fact the &#8220;legality&#8221; of his marriage to her is under question &#8211; the   documentation on the legality or otherwise having been locked away for about 75 years ie,. his marriage is NOT legal!</p>
<p>He rambles on about &#8221; saving the envirinment&#8221; but actually acts like some medieval absolute monarch in his little universe at Highgrove where he engages in &#8220;organic gardening&#8221; &#8211; well no,he talks about it others, the serfs, do it!  He employs umpteen hangers on and flunkeys to attend to his every wish &#8211; cooks galore, servants etc. &#8211; saving the environment is dead easy when you&#8217;re stinking rich. His potty Company&#8221;Duchy Originals &#8220;- 2nd. grade food at  premium prices &#8211; had to be rescued by a UK supermarket chain.</p>
<p>He engages in dangerous liasons with foreign dictators , principally from the Middle East, who  removed their support from an important building project in London.</p>
<p>He writes boring missives to Government ministers on things he knows absolutely nothing about.</p>
<p>He wanders around in a semi-threadbare camel coat looking like some superannuated bookie and has the annoying and very rude habit of wandering around with his (delicate ) hands stuck in his pockets!</p>
<p>He is a great advocate of quack medicine, such as homeopathy but   he needs to increase his dosage because when he speaks he appears to be suffering from some chronic form of constipation!</p>
<p>He is surrounded by a collection of fawning sycophants, who according to the latest reports think he is &#8220;potty&#8221; (which is correct) but they  daren&#8217;t tell him that he is a complete idiot as they fear for their cushy 6-figure jobs!</p>
<p>In brief he is an indulged and indulgent spoilt little brat and my long term wish and hope is that somebody tells him so and reiniforces the statement with a  knuckle sandwich. He is the  very mirror image of his great uncle &#8211; the vile Duke of Windsor &#8211; and I suggest he keeps mouth shut because he  seems to be one of nature&#8217;s great &#8220;peculiars&#8221; in that his mouth and backside have be interposed because when he opens the  former we all know what comes out of it!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Phillifent</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1445</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Phillifent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1445</guid>
		<description>HRH Prince Charles(or  PRINCE PLONKER as he is better known in the UK.) has been getting a bad press lately. His latest wife - his long term mistress Camilla - is thoroughly detrested by the majority of the British people. In fact the &quot;legality&quot; of his marriage to her is under question - the   documentation on the legality or otherwise having been locked away for about 75 years ie,. his marriage is NOT legal!

He rambles on about &quot; saving the envirinment&quot; but actually acts like some medieval absolute monarch in his little universe at Highgrove where he engages in &quot;organic gardening&quot; - well no,he talks about it others, the serfs, do it!  He employs umpteen hangers on and flunkeys to attend to his every wish - cooks galore, servants etc. - saving the environment is dead easy when you&#039;re stinking rich. His potty Company&quot;Duchy Originals &quot;- 2nd. grade food at  premium prices - had to be rescued by a UK supermarket chain.

He engages in dangerous liasons with foreign dictators , principally from the Middle East, who  removed theitr support from an important building project in London.

He writes boring missives to Government ministers on things he knows absolutely nothing about.

He wanders around in a semi-threadbare camel coat looking like some superannuated bookie and has the annoying and very rude habit of wandering around with his (delicate  hands stuck in his pockets!

He is a great advocate of quack medicine, such as homeopathy but   he needs to increase his dosage because when he speaks he appears to be suffering from some chronic form of constipation!

He is surrounded by a collection of fawning sycophants, who according to the latest reports think he is &quot;potty&quot; (which is correct) but they  daren&#039;t tell him that he is a complete idiot as they fear for their cushy 6-figure jobs!

In brief he is an indulged and indulgent spoilt little brat and my long term wish and hope is that somebody tells him so and reiniforces the statement with a  knuckle sandwich. He is the  very mirror image of his great uncle - the vile Duke of Windsor - and I suggest he keeps mouth shut because he  seems to be one of nature&#039;s great &quot;peculiars&quot; in that his mouth and backside have be interposed because when he opens the  former we all know what comes out of it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HRH Prince Charles(or  PRINCE PLONKER as he is better known in the UK.) has been getting a bad press lately. His latest wife &#8211; his long term mistress Camilla &#8211; is thoroughly detrested by the majority of the British people. In fact the &#8220;legality&#8221; of his marriage to her is under question &#8211; the   documentation on the legality or otherwise having been locked away for about 75 years ie,. his marriage is NOT legal!</p>
<p>He rambles on about &#8221; saving the envirinment&#8221; but actually acts like some medieval absolute monarch in his little universe at Highgrove where he engages in &#8220;organic gardening&#8221; &#8211; well no,he talks about it others, the serfs, do it!  He employs umpteen hangers on and flunkeys to attend to his every wish &#8211; cooks galore, servants etc. &#8211; saving the environment is dead easy when you&#8217;re stinking rich. His potty Company&#8221;Duchy Originals &#8220;- 2nd. grade food at  premium prices &#8211; had to be rescued by a UK supermarket chain.</p>
<p>He engages in dangerous liasons with foreign dictators , principally from the Middle East, who  removed theitr support from an important building project in London.</p>
<p>He writes boring missives to Government ministers on things he knows absolutely nothing about.</p>
<p>He wanders around in a semi-threadbare camel coat looking like some superannuated bookie and has the annoying and very rude habit of wandering around with his (delicate  hands stuck in his pockets!</p>
<p>He is a great advocate of quack medicine, such as homeopathy but   he needs to increase his dosage because when he speaks he appears to be suffering from some chronic form of constipation!</p>
<p>He is surrounded by a collection of fawning sycophants, who according to the latest reports think he is &#8220;potty&#8221; (which is correct) but they  daren&#8217;t tell him that he is a complete idiot as they fear for their cushy 6-figure jobs!</p>
<p>In brief he is an indulged and indulgent spoilt little brat and my long term wish and hope is that somebody tells him so and reiniforces the statement with a  knuckle sandwich. He is the  very mirror image of his great uncle &#8211; the vile Duke of Windsor &#8211; and I suggest he keeps mouth shut because he  seems to be one of nature&#8217;s great &#8220;peculiars&#8221; in that his mouth and backside have be interposed because when he opens the  former we all know what comes out of it!</p>
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		<title>By: TDK</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1444</link>
		<dc:creator>TDK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 14:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1444</guid>
		<description>There should be little surprise at the position of the English Gentry. Richard Pipes noted in &quot;The Russian Revolution 1899-1919&quot; (p364) that whereas the Russian gentry accounted for only 1.7% of the population they accounted for 22% of the Bolshevik party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There should be little surprise at the position of the English Gentry. Richard Pipes noted in &#8220;The Russian Revolution 1899-1919&#8243; (p364) that whereas the Russian gentry accounted for only 1.7% of the population they accounted for 22% of the Bolshevik party.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1443</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 17:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1443</guid>
		<description>People have been calling for us to &quot;reconnect&quot; with Nature for decades and decades. So far nobody has been able to demonstrate what such a fully fledged connection would look like. Lots of hippies have &quot;felt the grass between their toes&quot;, but that&#039;s as far as it goes. At some point you have to eat, build shelter, earn a living, and suddenly you&#039;re back to the real world.

People who desire a connection can simply take up meditation and they can get a satori that gives their consciousness a direct connection to the absolute, and at that point they are connected to everything. You need not recycle a single plastic bottle.

Now, the next problem is how do you somehow make the world a better place materially so that we all progress forward and our children can lead better lives? Factories and chemicals and big business are not going to go away, apparently the royal family is not going away either. These are simply structures of our human systems and even bees have to do a day&#039;s work for the colony.

So this is why the greens always TALK about going back to nature but never come up with any real system for doing it, which invariably leaves them with only one option which is to have NO system, to dismantle, to go back, to pull apart, and simply stop whatever systems we have. So &quot;back to nature&quot; ends up as &quot;back to 10,000BC&quot;. That&#039;s like solving the problem of how to get a man on the moon by teaching everyone that the moon does not exist. Many greenies actually believe that there is no such thing as &quot;progress&quot;. So they deconstruct everything back to some sort of undefined original pure state of &quot;balance&quot;. Again, words, but no concrete demonstrable solutions.

I really hope this green sub-culture dies out soon as the damage to rational thinking is just quite a worry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People have been calling for us to &#8220;reconnect&#8221; with Nature for decades and decades. So far nobody has been able to demonstrate what such a fully fledged connection would look like. Lots of hippies have &#8220;felt the grass between their toes&#8221;, but that&#8217;s as far as it goes. At some point you have to eat, build shelter, earn a living, and suddenly you&#8217;re back to the real world.</p>
<p>People who desire a connection can simply take up meditation and they can get a satori that gives their consciousness a direct connection to the absolute, and at that point they are connected to everything. You need not recycle a single plastic bottle.</p>
<p>Now, the next problem is how do you somehow make the world a better place materially so that we all progress forward and our children can lead better lives? Factories and chemicals and big business are not going to go away, apparently the royal family is not going away either. These are simply structures of our human systems and even bees have to do a day&#8217;s work for the colony.</p>
<p>So this is why the greens always TALK about going back to nature but never come up with any real system for doing it, which invariably leaves them with only one option which is to have NO system, to dismantle, to go back, to pull apart, and simply stop whatever systems we have. So &#8220;back to nature&#8221; ends up as &#8220;back to 10,000BC&#8221;. That&#8217;s like solving the problem of how to get a man on the moon by teaching everyone that the moon does not exist. Many greenies actually believe that there is no such thing as &#8220;progress&#8221;. So they deconstruct everything back to some sort of undefined original pure state of &#8220;balance&#8221;. Again, words, but no concrete demonstrable solutions.</p>
<p>I really hope this green sub-culture dies out soon as the damage to rational thinking is just quite a worry.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1442</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 07:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1442</guid>
		<description>Charles is a hypocrite just like Al Gore.

And just for the record he is not just &quot;the future king of England&quot; but in fact the whole of the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles is a hypocrite just like Al Gore.</p>
<p>And just for the record he is not just &#8220;the future king of England&#8221; but in fact the whole of the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: Editors</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1441</link>
		<dc:creator>Editors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1441</guid>
		<description>Mark, your criticism is fair, and others have pointed it out to us too. Our excuses are: being terribly short on time recently, owing to job changes and exams. We hope to be back on form within a week or so.

However, the point remains that there are some serious problems with Charles&#039; interventions on the climate issue, and the question about whose interests his brand of environmentalism and anti-capitalism serve also remain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, your criticism is fair, and others have pointed it out to us too. Our excuses are: being terribly short on time recently, owing to job changes and exams. We hope to be back on form within a week or so.</p>
<p>However, the point remains that there are some serious problems with Charles&#8217; interventions on the climate issue, and the question about whose interests his brand of environmentalism and anti-capitalism serve also remain.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Weston</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/04/unsustain-nobility.html#comment-1437</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Weston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=331#comment-1437</guid>
		<description>Snide and largely ad hom.  Not up to your usual standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snide and largely ad hom.  Not up to your usual standards.</p>
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