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	<title>Comments on: Make Us Let You Eat Less Cake</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html</link>
	<description>Challenging Climate Orthodoxy</description>
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		<title>By: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1530</link>
		<dc:creator>George Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 09:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1530</guid>
		<description>The &quot;hydrogen economy&quot; is a scam because most of the hydrogen we currently produce (for non-energy uses) is produced from fossil fuels (chiefly natural gas).

Not only is it more efficient to use fossil fuels directly rather than making hydrogen from them, hydrogen is also a very inconvenient fuel (its molecules are so tiny that leaks are a huge problem, and the energy-per-unit-volume sucks, to name just two problems).

I think synthetic hydrocarbons (or perhaps methanol or ethanol) produced using nuclear energy would be the ultimate replacement for fossil fuels in transportation applications, but even if this technology had killer problems, we could still phase out fossil fuels, by using direct nuclear propulsion for ships, battery-electric cars, and electric trains.  That would leave only aviation, which is a small enough part of total fuel consumption that biofuels could suffice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;hydrogen economy&#8221; is a scam because most of the hydrogen we currently produce (for non-energy uses) is produced from fossil fuels (chiefly natural gas).</p>
<p>Not only is it more efficient to use fossil fuels directly rather than making hydrogen from them, hydrogen is also a very inconvenient fuel (its molecules are so tiny that leaks are a huge problem, and the energy-per-unit-volume sucks, to name just two problems).</p>
<p>I think synthetic hydrocarbons (or perhaps methanol or ethanol) produced using nuclear energy would be the ultimate replacement for fossil fuels in transportation applications, but even if this technology had killer problems, we could still phase out fossil fuels, by using direct nuclear propulsion for ships, battery-electric cars, and electric trains.  That would leave only aviation, which is a small enough part of total fuel consumption that biofuels could suffice.</p>
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		<title>By: John Bailo</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1529</link>
		<dc:creator>John Bailo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1529</guid>
		<description>You sir, win the Golden Prize for insight.

Yes, absolutely!

Climate change (and the Obama Presidency) are the rallying cries of the elites, the plutocrats and their bureaucrats.    &quot;The People&quot; have not spoken a wit about it all except to say &quot;why are you raising my taxes&quot;.

The last thing the powers that be would want is a world where everyone has a temperate climate...we would need less oil, less electricity.   The last thing they would want is a Hydrogen economy, with fuel derived from water.

&quot;Greens&quot; &quot;oppose&quot; both these things.  As such Obama becomes the willing dupe of the elites.   His principle legislative lifetime achievement being to hand deliver 2 Trillion dollars of the peoples tax monies to his cronies and backers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You sir, win the Golden Prize for insight.</p>
<p>Yes, absolutely!</p>
<p>Climate change (and the Obama Presidency) are the rallying cries of the elites, the plutocrats and their bureaucrats.    &#8220;The People&#8221; have not spoken a wit about it all except to say &#8220;why are you raising my taxes&#8221;.</p>
<p>The last thing the powers that be would want is a world where everyone has a temperate climate&#8230;we would need less oil, less electricity.   The last thing they would want is a Hydrogen economy, with fuel derived from water.</p>
<p>&#8220;Greens&#8221; &#8220;oppose&#8221; both these things.  As such Obama becomes the willing dupe of the elites.   His principle legislative lifetime achievement being to hand deliver 2 Trillion dollars of the peoples tax monies to his cronies and backers.</p>
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		<title>By: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>George Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 06:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1528</guid>
		<description>From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://depletedcranium.com/?p=3136#comment-17917&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Depleted Cranium&lt;/a&gt; blog:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The notion that humanity needs to be absolutely zero CO2 producing is absurd. Right now we produce billions and billions of tons a year, and clearly that is more than the various natural carbon sinks of the earth can absorb, but the notion that we should never ever use hydrocarbon fuels in any application is unrealistic.

I tend to think of CO2 producing energy sources in the same way as I think of something like saturated fat or cholesterol in one’s diet. It’s unhealthy to have a diet that is very high in saturated fat, but that does not mean that it is necessary to have zero milligrams of saturated fat in your diet. That would be extremely difficult to get to and probably wouldn’t have any greater benefit to it than just keeping the number reasonably low.

Anyway, when it comes to “throwing out all the CO2 they please.” let me put it this way - I don’t consider it my responsibility to suffer in the cold and dark for the sake of the atmosphere, because my government has created a regulatory structure that has forced most of our energy to come from fossil fuels. I’m the first one to write to elected representatives or try to drum up support for other options, but don’t expect me to take one for the team because of someone else’s sheer incompetence. Rationing of energy is never the answer to anything except perhaps an overly healthy economy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the <a href="http://depletedcranium.com/?p=3136#comment-17917" rel="nofollow">Depleted Cranium</a> blog:</p>
<blockquote><p>The notion that humanity needs to be absolutely zero CO2 producing is absurd. Right now we produce billions and billions of tons a year, and clearly that is more than the various natural carbon sinks of the earth can absorb, but the notion that we should never ever use hydrocarbon fuels in any application is unrealistic.</p>
<p>I tend to think of CO2 producing energy sources in the same way as I think of something like saturated fat or cholesterol in one’s diet. It’s unhealthy to have a diet that is very high in saturated fat, but that does not mean that it is necessary to have zero milligrams of saturated fat in your diet. That would be extremely difficult to get to and probably wouldn’t have any greater benefit to it than just keeping the number reasonably low.</p>
<p>Anyway, when it comes to “throwing out all the CO2 they please.” let me put it this way &#8211; I don’t consider it my responsibility to suffer in the cold and dark for the sake of the atmosphere, because my government has created a regulatory structure that has forced most of our energy to come from fossil fuels. I’m the first one to write to elected representatives or try to drum up support for other options, but don’t expect me to take one for the team because of someone else’s sheer incompetence. Rationing of energy is never the answer to anything except perhaps an overly healthy economy.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Alex Cull</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1527</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Cull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1527</guid>
		<description>An excellent point by art west; here&#039;s a link to a BBC news article about people marching against the Iraq war in 2003:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm

There were many people opposed to the war or who had strong doubts about WMD and the wisdom of invading Iraq - and the Blair government pushed on, regardless.

It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that the current regime really do not listen, just pretend that they are doing so when it suits them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent point by art west; here&#8217;s a link to a BBC news article about people marching against the Iraq war in 2003:<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm</a></p>
<p>There were many people opposed to the war or who had strong doubts about WMD and the wisdom of invading Iraq &#8211; and the Blair government pushed on, regardless.</p>
<p>It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that the current regime really do not listen, just pretend that they are doing so when it suits them.</p>
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		<title>By: art west</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1526</link>
		<dc:creator>art west</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1526</guid>
		<description>The contrast between the pitifully small number of eco-protesters and the massive numbers of anti-Iraq War marchers couldn&#039;t be greater, yet the government has the gall to suggest that it is public pressure driving their eco-policies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The contrast between the pitifully small number of eco-protesters and the massive numbers of anti-Iraq War marchers couldn&#8217;t be greater, yet the government has the gall to suggest that it is public pressure driving their eco-policies!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1525</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1525</guid>
		<description>Re Verpeas comment above.

I thought I&#039;d have a look on the greenpeace website as well, and you are absolutely correct.  There is maybe 1 in 6 or 8 posts that has 1 comment and about 1 in 20-30 that has more than 1 comment.

It is very funny to see how little they are able to &quot;engage&quot; with the general population - perhaps everyone is out protesting against coal fired power stations, or maybe they&#039;ve all switched off their PCs to go green?

I&#039;ll have to start some baiting as well, if I can ever be bothered to get round and register with them....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Verpeas comment above.</p>
<p>I thought I&#8217;d have a look on the greenpeace website as well, and you are absolutely correct.  There is maybe 1 in 6 or 8 posts that has 1 comment and about 1 in 20-30 that has more than 1 comment.</p>
<p>It is very funny to see how little they are able to &#8220;engage&#8221; with the general population &#8211; perhaps everyone is out protesting against coal fired power stations, or maybe they&#8217;ve all switched off their PCs to go green?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to start some baiting as well, if I can ever be bothered to get round and register with them&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: crsmumby</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1524</link>
		<dc:creator>crsmumby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1524</guid>
		<description>Spence - after your top tip, I watched the non-turning windmills behind our Ed.  Very funny.

Although I recommend muting the sound ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spence &#8211; after your top tip, I watched the non-turning windmills behind our Ed.  Very funny.</p>
<p>Although I recommend muting the sound <img src='http://www.climate-resistance.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Spence</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1523</link>
		<dc:creator>Spence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1523</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just trying not to laugh about the windmills behind Ed in the third video.  Of three windmills, two are... completely still.  And the third looks like it&#039;s turning at a small fraction of capacity.  It isn&#039;t like there is no wind either - you can see Ed&#039;s hair blowing.

The failings of wind power, promoted right there is a video that is supposed to support it.  Yet even though the problems are obvious and staring them in the face, the government and its supporters can&#039;t see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just trying not to laugh about the windmills behind Ed in the third video.  Of three windmills, two are&#8230; completely still.  And the third looks like it&#8217;s turning at a small fraction of capacity.  It isn&#8217;t like there is no wind either &#8211; you can see Ed&#8217;s hair blowing.</p>
<p>The failings of wind power, promoted right there is a video that is supposed to support it.  Yet even though the problems are obvious and staring them in the face, the government and its supporters can&#8217;t see it.</p>
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		<title>By: Verpeas</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1522</link>
		<dc:creator>Verpeas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1522</guid>
		<description>&quot;Save Creation at Copenhagen&quot;? Oh, we get religion into it now do we? Where are they coming from? Ah I see, yes, if we all return to a basic ignorant peasantry then we will all turn back to the church. Is that it do you think?

Hang on though, doesn&#039;t the bible preach &quot;Go forth and multiply&quot; and also &quot;the Lord will provide&quot;. Its a bit high handed of these churchy type to think that their actions would help God in any way isn&#039;t it. Just stick to praying guys, and let Him get on with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Save Creation at Copenhagen&#8221;? Oh, we get religion into it now do we? Where are they coming from? Ah I see, yes, if we all return to a basic ignorant peasantry then we will all turn back to the church. Is that it do you think?</p>
<p>Hang on though, doesn&#8217;t the bible preach &#8220;Go forth and multiply&#8221; and also &#8220;the Lord will provide&#8221;. Its a bit high handed of these churchy type to think that their actions would help God in any way isn&#8217;t it. Just stick to praying guys, and let Him get on with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Verpeas</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/make-us-let-you-eat-less-cake.html/comment-page-1#comment-1521</link>
		<dc:creator>Verpeas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=348#comment-1521</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been diving into the Greenpeace (UK) website a little over the past few weeks (sorry, I know but I like to dance with the devil) and am struck by the number of postings without any comments on them at all. Unlike this one where there is quite lively debate. I&#039;m not actually against being a bit frugal, saving petrol and electrictity and so on, it helps in the pocket rather than for any great crusade, and left a few posts on their site. Its quite easy to wind them up when in fact I&#039;m probably greener than any of them. The entry with the biggest number of posts was the one where I stirred it up a bit, otherwise you see (0) postings everywhere. A representative body of opinion? I don&#039;t think so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been diving into the Greenpeace (UK) website a little over the past few weeks (sorry, I know but I like to dance with the devil) and am struck by the number of postings without any comments on them at all. Unlike this one where there is quite lively debate. I&#8217;m not actually against being a bit frugal, saving petrol and electrictity and so on, it helps in the pocket rather than for any great crusade, and left a few posts on their site. Its quite easy to wind them up when in fact I&#8217;m probably greener than any of them. The entry with the biggest number of posts was the one where I stirred it up a bit, otherwise you see (0) postings everywhere. A representative body of opinion? I don&#8217;t think so!</p>
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