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	<title>Comments on: The Lady Doth Protest too Much&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html</link>
	<description>Challenging Climate Orthodoxy</description>
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		<title>By: DennisA</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/comment-page-1#comment-1518</link>
		<dc:creator>DennisA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much....html#comment-1518</guid>
		<description>The link didn&#039;t post properly but search on google, it will come up.

&quot;BBC Seduced by Tale of &#039;al Qaeda Diamond Trade,&#039; Now Being Sued&quot;

The Guardian - December 10, 2001</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The link didn&#8217;t post properly but search on google, it will come up.</p>
<p>&#8220;BBC Seduced by Tale of &#8216;al Qaeda Diamond Trade,&#8217; Now Being Sued&#8221;</p>
<p>The Guardian &#8211; December 10, 2001</p>
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		<title>By: DennisA</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/comment-page-1#comment-1517</link>
		<dc:creator>DennisA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much....html#comment-1517</guid>
		<description>What doesn&#039;t come out of the diamond story is that the reporter involved was none other than David Shukman, probably the worst AGW scare-mongering journalist on TV.

http://www.blythe.org/nytransfer-subs/Race_and_Class/BBC,_Seduced_by_&#039;al_Qaeda_Diamonds,&#039;_Now_Being_Sued_</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What doesn&#8217;t come out of the diamond story is that the reporter involved was none other than David Shukman, probably the worst AGW scare-mongering journalist on TV.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.blythe.org/nytransfer-subs/Race_and_Class/BBC,_Seduced_by_" rel="nofollow">http://www.blythe.org/nytransfer-subs/Race_and_Class/BBC,_Seduced_by_</a>&#8216;al_Qaeda_Diamonds,&#8217;_Now_Being_Sued_</p>
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		<title>By: teh</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/comment-page-1#comment-1516</link>
		<dc:creator>teh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much....html#comment-1516</guid>
		<description>A catchy name perhaps, but for a really bad idea. We are in the &quot;Second Consensus&quot; anyway, and are poised to enter the third. The first consensus was called Global Warming, the second Climate Change, and the third is The Pipeline. All are characterised by putting ideology and politics before science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A catchy name perhaps, but for a really bad idea. We are in the &#8220;Second Consensus&#8221; anyway, and are poised to enter the third. The first consensus was called Global Warming, the second Climate Change, and the third is The Pipeline. All are characterised by putting ideology and politics before science.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/comment-page-1#comment-1515</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much....html#comment-1515</guid>
		<description>Does anyone think

The Second Climate Consensus

would be a catchy name?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone think</p>
<p>The Second Climate Consensus</p>
<p>would be a catchy name?</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/comment-page-1#comment-1514</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much....html#comment-1514</guid>
		<description>It may well indeed be a symptom of a wider cultural trend. The book Spiral Dynamics lists 6 or 7 cultural values stages, and one of the later/more recent ones to emerge, &quot;green&quot;, is the one that puts great value on community and resolving problems and conflicts through mutual understanding. Like, if only we could all talk to each other as human beings, and drop the traditional divisions of race, gender, nationality, and so on, we could come to understand each other and find harmony.

Well that works up to a point. The downside is that people at green, in trying to build understanding, end up frowning upon those who don&#039;t want to join the group. Like, we&#039;d get world peace if only you&#039;d stop being so awkward with your disagreeable opinions. It is political correctness, smothering (with gentleness) feel-good causes. And the people who don&#039;t want to agree, well, they suffer the shadow side of green, namely accusations that they&#039;re greedy selfish people.

Anyway, with the caveat that this is my reading of the book, I think we can recognise this as quite pervasive now in our western culture.

Now not all of environmentalism fits the green values stage, but at a place like the BBC, there&#039;s more likelihood of finding green values culture, and hence their ethical decision that it is actually better to suppress different opinions (even scientific ones) in the cause of serving the people by moving them towards consensus and world harmony.

Unfortunately, at the end of the day, whatever your values, the scientific method is about reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may well indeed be a symptom of a wider cultural trend. The book Spiral Dynamics lists 6 or 7 cultural values stages, and one of the later/more recent ones to emerge, &#8220;green&#8221;, is the one that puts great value on community and resolving problems and conflicts through mutual understanding. Like, if only we could all talk to each other as human beings, and drop the traditional divisions of race, gender, nationality, and so on, we could come to understand each other and find harmony.</p>
<p>Well that works up to a point. The downside is that people at green, in trying to build understanding, end up frowning upon those who don&#8217;t want to join the group. Like, we&#8217;d get world peace if only you&#8217;d stop being so awkward with your disagreeable opinions. It is political correctness, smothering (with gentleness) feel-good causes. And the people who don&#8217;t want to agree, well, they suffer the shadow side of green, namely accusations that they&#8217;re greedy selfish people.</p>
<p>Anyway, with the caveat that this is my reading of the book, I think we can recognise this as quite pervasive now in our western culture.</p>
<p>Now not all of environmentalism fits the green values stage, but at a place like the BBC, there&#8217;s more likelihood of finding green values culture, and hence their ethical decision that it is actually better to suppress different opinions (even scientific ones) in the cause of serving the people by moving them towards consensus and world harmony.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, at the end of the day, whatever your values, the scientific method is about reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Vinny Burgoo</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/comment-page-1#comment-1513</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinny Burgoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much....html#comment-1513</guid>
		<description>Re: &#039;But let’s not single out the BBC. The culture that exists at the BBC is symptomatic of a wider phenomenon of which the BBC is just another victim.&#039;

While I was sorting out some old magazines last night I stumbled on a 1999 editorial in New Scientist. It started by stating a properly scientific aversion to scientific consensus.

&#039;Consensus is a dangerous thing in science. The notion that researchers can ever prove their theories is long gone - they can only wait for others to knock them down. This means that to be healthy, science needs an opposition, and when politicians ask scientists to reach a common view, it pays to be wary.&#039;

But that was just for form&#039;s sake. The rest of the editorial argued for the exact opposite: &#039;the IPCC has turned consensus into a virtue&#039;; the only danger is that it still &#039;makes a point of drawing sometimes hostile sceptics into its deliberations&#039;; politicians must show us &#039;that they can act as one to halt the coming nightmare&#039;. In other words, forget what we just told you about proper science. When it comes to global warming, sickness is a virtue, safety is danger and wary is scary.

Heroic doublethink from Britain&#039;s leading popular science mag!

(Perhaps the writer was drunk. The editorial was in an &#039;End of the Millennium Special Edition&#039; devoted to alcohol.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8216;But let’s not single out the BBC. The culture that exists at the BBC is symptomatic of a wider phenomenon of which the BBC is just another victim.&#8217;</p>
<p>While I was sorting out some old magazines last night I stumbled on a 1999 editorial in New Scientist. It started by stating a properly scientific aversion to scientific consensus.</p>
<p>&#8216;Consensus is a dangerous thing in science. The notion that researchers can ever prove their theories is long gone &#8211; they can only wait for others to knock them down. This means that to be healthy, science needs an opposition, and when politicians ask scientists to reach a common view, it pays to be wary.&#8217;</p>
<p>But that was just for form&#8217;s sake. The rest of the editorial argued for the exact opposite: &#8216;the IPCC has turned consensus into a virtue&#8217;; the only danger is that it still &#8216;makes a point of drawing sometimes hostile sceptics into its deliberations&#8217;; politicians must show us &#8216;that they can act as one to halt the coming nightmare&#8217;. In other words, forget what we just told you about proper science. When it comes to global warming, sickness is a virtue, safety is danger and wary is scary.</p>
<p>Heroic doublethink from Britain&#8217;s leading popular science mag!</p>
<p>(Perhaps the writer was drunk. The editorial was in an &#8216;End of the Millennium Special Edition&#8217; devoted to alcohol.)</p>
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		<title>By: TDK</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/comment-page-1#comment-1512</link>
		<dc:creator>TDK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much....html#comment-1512</guid>
		<description>This appears to be the article. I didn&#039;t see it before so maybe it has been edited but it certainly includes the Lucas quotes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1199006/PETER-SISSONS-I-drove-Television-Centre-final-time-month--I-dont-pang-regret.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This appears to be the article. I didn&#8217;t see it before so maybe it has been edited but it certainly includes the Lucas quotes</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1199006/PETER-SISSONS-I-drove-Television-Centre-final-time-month--I-dont-pang-regret.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1199006/PETER-SISSONS-I-drove-Television-Centre-final-time-month&#8211;I-dont-pang-regret.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: teh</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.html/comment-page-1#comment-1511</link>
		<dc:creator>teh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/07/the-lady-doth-protest-too-much....html#comment-1511</guid>
		<description>I take the complete opposite view. The problem is that principles are adhered to at the expense of facts, just like in religion. If the data supported your philosophy or politics, then there would be no reason to react so violently to it.

Under normal circumstances, faced with evidence that conflicts with a theory (or in this case a model), one would seek to improve the theory, thus increasing our knowledge and understanding. However, a more accurate description of the human effect on climate - ie. one that fits better with the facts, might also destroy a pillar of environmentalism, and a great deal of political credibility. It is far easier psychologically to deny reality than it is to change your mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take the complete opposite view. The problem is that principles are adhered to at the expense of facts, just like in religion. If the data supported your philosophy or politics, then there would be no reason to react so violently to it.</p>
<p>Under normal circumstances, faced with evidence that conflicts with a theory (or in this case a model), one would seek to improve the theory, thus increasing our knowledge and understanding. However, a more accurate description of the human effect on climate &#8211; ie. one that fits better with the facts, might also destroy a pillar of environmentalism, and a great deal of political credibility. It is far easier psychologically to deny reality than it is to change your mind.</p>
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