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	<title>Comments on: Dead Babies &#8211; Conscripts in the Climate War</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html</link>
	<description>Challenging Climate Orthodoxy</description>
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		<title>By: Vinny Burgoo</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1852</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinny Burgoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1852</guid>
		<description>Today&#039;s Daily Telegraph repeats the Save the Children claims under the headline, &#039;Climate change &quot;could kill 400,000 children every year&quot;&#039;. (About four weeks ago, the same writer wrote pretty much the same story under the headline, &#039;Climate change could kill 250,000 children&#039;. The new version is presumably thought to be more Copenhagentastic.) I read and boggled at your excellent analysis when you first posted it but I didn&#039;t realize it was the same report so went looking for the source of the numbers. First stop: the report itself. And the numbers aren&#039;t there. _Feeling the Heat_ says that &#039;85,000 children are dying from diarrhoea associated with climate change&#039; but gives no estimate for deaths from all causes that it associates with climate change.

So where do the numbers come from? I agree with your suggestion that STC applied child-mortality-as-%-of-total-mortality ratios* to GHM&#039;s numbers, but who did this? As far as I can tell, the numbers don&#039;t come from any other recent Save the Children reports. Did some press officer decide to spice things up a bit with a bit of creative maths? (Or perhaps it was Midge Ure, who was wheeled out as an expert on erratic rainfall and dead babies in the first Telegraph &lt;strike&gt;press release&lt;/strike&gt; article.)

*80% for this year, 85% for 2030. More offerings from the Institute of Made-up Numbers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today&#8217;s Daily Telegraph repeats the Save the Children claims under the headline, &#8216;Climate change &#8220;could kill 400,000 children every year&#8221;&#8216;. (About four weeks ago, the same writer wrote pretty much the same story under the headline, &#8216;Climate change could kill 250,000 children&#8217;. The new version is presumably thought to be more Copenhagentastic.) I read and boggled at your excellent analysis when you first posted it but I didn&#8217;t realize it was the same report so went looking for the source of the numbers. First stop: the report itself. And the numbers aren&#8217;t there. _Feeling the Heat_ says that &#8216;85,000 children are dying from diarrhoea associated with climate change&#8217; but gives no estimate for deaths from all causes that it associates with climate change.</p>
<p>So where do the numbers come from? I agree with your suggestion that STC applied child-mortality-as-%-of-total-mortality ratios* to GHM&#8217;s numbers, but who did this? As far as I can tell, the numbers don&#8217;t come from any other recent Save the Children reports. Did some press officer decide to spice things up a bit with a bit of creative maths? (Or perhaps it was Midge Ure, who was wheeled out as an expert on erratic rainfall and dead babies in the first Telegraph <strike>press release</strike> article.)</p>
<p>*80% for this year, 85% for 2030. More offerings from the Institute of Made-up Numbers?</p>
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		<title>By: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1801</link>
		<dc:creator>George Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1801</guid>
		<description>Another thought - could it be the case that Africans are indeed suffering from man-made climate change, but that this climate change is caused not by CO2, but by deforestation?

Maybe we need to give the Africans something else to burn, so that they stop cutting down trees for firewood...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thought &#8211; could it be the case that Africans are indeed suffering from man-made climate change, but that this climate change is caused not by CO2, but by deforestation?</p>
<p>Maybe we need to give the Africans something else to burn, so that they stop cutting down trees for firewood&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Cull</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1762</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Cull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1762</guid>
		<description>Re charities, I think Water Aid looks promising - http://www.wateraid.org/uk/
Although I think they do mention climate change somewhere on their site, it&#039;s mostly about providing safe drinking water and sanitation - the basics, really.

Re deaths due to climate change, whenever I read about this, a question springs to mind. If, according to AGW proponents, climate change is causing hundreds of thousands of deaths now (with CO2 at 385 ppm), is there a time in the past that could be pointed to as an ideal time, from the point of view of climate change deaths? When would have been an optimum time? Somewhere in the 1600s, perhaps? Or the 1700s? 

I&#039;m thinking of a year such as 1770, when CO2 was (presumably) at a &quot;safe&quot; level of 285 ppm or thereabouts. This was during the great Bengal Famine, when approximately 15 million people were said to have died in India. Poverty would have been a factor, also probable mismanagement and indifference on the part of the British East India Company; however, the main cause was crop failure, caused by a severe drought in 1769.

I have no doubt that if we had something similar to the Bengal Famine of 1770 occurring now, AGW proponents would be blaming man-made climate change. I think the main reason why they get away with ascribing so many deaths to climate change, is that people, generally speaking, are not as conversant with history as they ought to be, and tend not to realise just how bad things often were before recent times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re charities, I think Water Aid looks promising &#8211; <a href="http://www.wateraid.org/uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wateraid.org/uk/</a><br />
Although I think they do mention climate change somewhere on their site, it&#8217;s mostly about providing safe drinking water and sanitation &#8211; the basics, really.</p>
<p>Re deaths due to climate change, whenever I read about this, a question springs to mind. If, according to AGW proponents, climate change is causing hundreds of thousands of deaths now (with CO2 at 385 ppm), is there a time in the past that could be pointed to as an ideal time, from the point of view of climate change deaths? When would have been an optimum time? Somewhere in the 1600s, perhaps? Or the 1700s? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking of a year such as 1770, when CO2 was (presumably) at a &#8220;safe&#8221; level of 285 ppm or thereabouts. This was during the great Bengal Famine, when approximately 15 million people were said to have died in India. Poverty would have been a factor, also probable mismanagement and indifference on the part of the British East India Company; however, the main cause was crop failure, caused by a severe drought in 1769.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that if we had something similar to the Bengal Famine of 1770 occurring now, AGW proponents would be blaming man-made climate change. I think the main reason why they get away with ascribing so many deaths to climate change, is that people, generally speaking, are not as conversant with history as they ought to be, and tend not to realise just how bad things often were before recent times.</p>
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		<title>By: Ayrdale</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1749</link>
		<dc:creator>Ayrdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1749</guid>
		<description>Very good analysis.

Please see this very important news from the University of Bristol...

http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2009/6649.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good analysis.</p>
<p>Please see this very important news from the University of Bristol&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2009/6649.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2009/6649.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ian C</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1748</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1748</guid>
		<description>George - one approach might be to support microfinance organisations (such as Kiva), where the borrowers themselves decide the best way to use the help.  However this doesn&#039;t address the needs of the very poorest, who are not in a position to use this kind of help - I too would welcome suggestions here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George &#8211; one approach might be to support microfinance organisations (such as Kiva), where the borrowers themselves decide the best way to use the help.  However this doesn&#8217;t address the needs of the very poorest, who are not in a position to use this kind of help &#8211; I too would welcome suggestions here.</p>
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		<title>By: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1747</link>
		<dc:creator>George Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1747</guid>
		<description>Can anyone make suggestions here about which charities people could donate to in order to actually do something &lt;i&gt;constructive&lt;/i&gt; about poverty and underdevelopment in the Third World?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone make suggestions here about which charities people could donate to in order to actually do something <i>constructive</i> about poverty and underdevelopment in the Third World?</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Warmer</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1746</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Warmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1746</guid>
		<description>Eds - another good post - the lie &quot;Climate change is the biggest global health threat to children in the 21st century&quot; wouldn&#039;t be allowed to be used by a private company.  This is a real governance issue which as Geoff says needs to get to a wider audience.

I was recently given a copy of Christian Aid news (Issue 45 Autumn 2009) which is witness to their shift in focus to climate. Word count (out of 30 pages):

&quot;Climate Change&quot; 42 mentions (excluding climate crisis, climate chaos, climate justice, runaway climate, changing climate, climate science, climate summit, climate friendly and at least 3 global warmings)

&quot;God&quot; 1 mention

&quot;Jesus&quot; 0 mentions

PS My counts haven&#039;t been peer-reviewed - I have excluded the letters pages where at least one writer mentions Jesus.

The fact that CAid spent &quot;£18 million on fundraising in 2008/09&quot; and &quot;Sixteen per cent of our expenditure this year went on education, advocacy and campaigning&quot; out of a total income of £86.5 million is also quite staggering. (from their website).

Finally, as you&#039;ve noted in comments before - when what is left is spent using &quot;sustainable development&quot; to save these people&#039;s lives there is an inevitable compromise for those threatened today against some notional future generation. This is hypocrisy.

I mean how many lives are actually being saved by these actions?: &quot;We support women’s councils in Afghanistan, human rights monitoring in the Gaza Strip and sustainable agriculture in Bangladesh.&quot; The mind boggles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eds &#8211; another good post &#8211; the lie &#8220;Climate change is the biggest global health threat to children in the 21st century&#8221; wouldn&#8217;t be allowed to be used by a private company.  This is a real governance issue which as Geoff says needs to get to a wider audience.</p>
<p>I was recently given a copy of Christian Aid news (Issue 45 Autumn 2009) which is witness to their shift in focus to climate. Word count (out of 30 pages):</p>
<p>&#8220;Climate Change&#8221; 42 mentions (excluding climate crisis, climate chaos, climate justice, runaway climate, changing climate, climate science, climate summit, climate friendly and at least 3 global warmings)</p>
<p>&#8220;God&#8221; 1 mention</p>
<p>&#8220;Jesus&#8221; 0 mentions</p>
<p>PS My counts haven&#8217;t been peer-reviewed &#8211; I have excluded the letters pages where at least one writer mentions Jesus.</p>
<p>The fact that CAid spent &#8220;£18 million on fundraising in 2008/09&#8243; and &#8220;Sixteen per cent of our expenditure this year went on education, advocacy and campaigning&#8221; out of a total income of £86.5 million is also quite staggering. (from their website).</p>
<p>Finally, as you&#8217;ve noted in comments before &#8211; when what is left is spent using &#8220;sustainable development&#8221; to save these people&#8217;s lives there is an inevitable compromise for those threatened today against some notional future generation. This is hypocrisy.</p>
<p>I mean how many lives are actually being saved by these actions?: &#8220;We support women’s councils in Afghanistan, human rights monitoring in the Gaza Strip and sustainable agriculture in Bangladesh.&#8221; The mind boggles.</p>
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		<title>By: Editors</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1745</link>
		<dc:creator>Editors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1745</guid>
		<description>Thanks for pointing out, Geoff - editors need an editor.

We&#039;re still confined to debate and blogging, it seems, but we too would like to hear about how to widen the argument in the mainstream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for pointing out, Geoff &#8211; editors need an editor.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re still confined to debate and blogging, it seems, but we too would like to hear about how to widen the argument in the mainstream.</p>
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		<title>By: geoffchambers</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/dead-babies-conscripts-in-the-climate-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-1744</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffchambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=388#comment-1744</guid>
		<description>Just under your last table is this paragraph, which has something wrong somewhere.
“10,000 fewer deaths per day is likely a consequence of two things - positive interventions, and the effect of increasing deaths.”

Congratulations on the analysis. I’d love to see some discussion here on how to get the information out to a wider audience. Every political speech on climate change can be blown apart with selected statistics from C-R.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just under your last table is this paragraph, which has something wrong somewhere.<br />
“10,000 fewer deaths per day is likely a consequence of two things &#8211; positive interventions, and the effect of increasing deaths.”</p>
<p>Congratulations on the analysis. I’d love to see some discussion here on how to get the information out to a wider audience. Every political speech on climate change can be blown apart with selected statistics from C-R.</p>
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