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	<title>Comments on: Hacking the Climate Da Vinci Code</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html</link>
	<description>Challenging Climate Orthodoxy</description>
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		<title>By: Dermod O'Reilly</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1879</link>
		<dc:creator>Dermod O'Reilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1879</guid>
		<description>This is indeed a powerful analysis. I have been working on the thermodynamics in the scientific arguments put forward for the alleged 33C warming due to &quot;greenhouse&quot; gases. It surprised me a greatly when I finally untangled the truly bizarre nature of the claims made by the IPCC and its authors. The 33C arises because the &quot;Earth is assumed to radiate as a blackbody&quot;. This assumption is absurd, the Earth reflects about 30% of the Sun&#039;s radiation, that is why we can see it at all; the Earth cannot reflect 30% and radiate as a black body at the same time. The more credible mean temperature of the Earth is +9C.

This is not the only weakness in the AGW science, the idea that any trace gas can influence the temperature gradient in the atmosphere is equally absurd. Agreed  CO2 and H2O vapour absorb radiation but they also emit it, the small amount they absorb is quite insufficient to upset the dominant modes of heat transfer in the atmosphere which are water evaporation and convection.

CO2 and H2O vapour emit vastly more heat than they absorb because they are somewhere between +30C and -55C, depending on the height, and deep space is about -270C, as always the heat flows from hot to cold, the bigger the temperature gradient the greater the heat flow.

For me the value of your article is its clear focus on the political aspects of the matter. I intend soon to publish a detailed thermodynamic analysis of planetary heating by a star but the matter is so fraught with controversy that the focussing of my presentation is a major task, it is not easy to convince the believer who is already signed up for what is actually &quot;perpetual motion&quot; science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is indeed a powerful analysis. I have been working on the thermodynamics in the scientific arguments put forward for the alleged 33C warming due to &#8220;greenhouse&#8221; gases. It surprised me a greatly when I finally untangled the truly bizarre nature of the claims made by the IPCC and its authors. The 33C arises because the &#8220;Earth is assumed to radiate as a blackbody&#8221;. This assumption is absurd, the Earth reflects about 30% of the Sun&#8217;s radiation, that is why we can see it at all; the Earth cannot reflect 30% and radiate as a black body at the same time. The more credible mean temperature of the Earth is +9C.</p>
<p>This is not the only weakness in the AGW science, the idea that any trace gas can influence the temperature gradient in the atmosphere is equally absurd. Agreed  CO2 and H2O vapour absorb radiation but they also emit it, the small amount they absorb is quite insufficient to upset the dominant modes of heat transfer in the atmosphere which are water evaporation and convection.</p>
<p>CO2 and H2O vapour emit vastly more heat than they absorb because they are somewhere between +30C and -55C, depending on the height, and deep space is about -270C, as always the heat flows from hot to cold, the bigger the temperature gradient the greater the heat flow.</p>
<p>For me the value of your article is its clear focus on the political aspects of the matter. I intend soon to publish a detailed thermodynamic analysis of planetary heating by a star but the matter is so fraught with controversy that the focussing of my presentation is a major task, it is not easy to convince the believer who is already signed up for what is actually &#8220;perpetual motion&#8221; science.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterS</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1878</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1878</guid>
		<description>I wonder if this article would be more easily digestible if it proposed asking a simple question to those who place a value on environmentalism?  &quot;What would you be doing with the world - if you weren&#039;t being so busy trying to save it?&quot;

Determining what the &#039;environmentalist&#039; is busy trying to save the world from - what perceived obstacle prevents him from doing whatever it is he would otherwise be doing - may provide him with a more usable set of ideas about the value of his project.

But, as we can see, the question could equally apply to a person who is &#039;sceptical&#039; about the claims made for AGW. He is equally busy trying to save the world - from ideas he perceives to be a danger to it.

The excess of effort required by the person who holds environmental beliefs is dependent upon the strength of the scepticism those beliefs are met with.  If such beliefs are all about &#039;endings&#039; (and environmentalism, if about nothing else, is all about something &#039;ending&#039;), then it may be scepticism itself that the environmentalist is trying to save the world from.

If the environmental belief is for the urgent need of a &#039;conclusion&#039; (an end to curiosity), then scepticism - if a sceptic could be described as someone who likes to keep his options open - becomes the eternal saboteur of that belief. And what the &#039;environmentalist&#039; is busy trying to save himself from is a need to keep his options open.  The world (his current environment and the people in it), as a model, keeps reminding him of that need.

As this article hints, it may be that the &#039;environmentalist&#039; has no coherent answer to the question of what he will do with the world once he has &#039;saved&#039; it (or what he might be doing with the world if he wasn&#039;t busy saving it), because there isn&#039;t one he can give without sabotaging his own project.  The value of the belief (and why it must be clung to) is that it is a deferral of a need - into a future - in an effort to get rid of it. And (curiously enough) the future the belief fantasises is one where all need (and needing) is abolished.

The &#039;environment&#039; is made the scapegoat (or the cover-story) for the believer&#039;s refusal to live in it.  The &#039;sceptic&#039; becomes the environmentalist&#039;s terrorist... forever threatening him with the self-knowledge of his own appetite and free will - and the space in which it can be explored and met.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if this article would be more easily digestible if it proposed asking a simple question to those who place a value on environmentalism?  &#8220;What would you be doing with the world &#8211; if you weren&#8217;t being so busy trying to save it?&#8221;</p>
<p>Determining what the &#8216;environmentalist&#8217; is busy trying to save the world from &#8211; what perceived obstacle prevents him from doing whatever it is he would otherwise be doing &#8211; may provide him with a more usable set of ideas about the value of his project.</p>
<p>But, as we can see, the question could equally apply to a person who is &#8216;sceptical&#8217; about the claims made for AGW. He is equally busy trying to save the world &#8211; from ideas he perceives to be a danger to it.</p>
<p>The excess of effort required by the person who holds environmental beliefs is dependent upon the strength of the scepticism those beliefs are met with.  If such beliefs are all about &#8216;endings&#8217; (and environmentalism, if about nothing else, is all about something &#8216;ending&#8217;), then it may be scepticism itself that the environmentalist is trying to save the world from.</p>
<p>If the environmental belief is for the urgent need of a &#8216;conclusion&#8217; (an end to curiosity), then scepticism &#8211; if a sceptic could be described as someone who likes to keep his options open &#8211; becomes the eternal saboteur of that belief. And what the &#8216;environmentalist&#8217; is busy trying to save himself from is a need to keep his options open.  The world (his current environment and the people in it), as a model, keeps reminding him of that need.</p>
<p>As this article hints, it may be that the &#8216;environmentalist&#8217; has no coherent answer to the question of what he will do with the world once he has &#8216;saved&#8217; it (or what he might be doing with the world if he wasn&#8217;t busy saving it), because there isn&#8217;t one he can give without sabotaging his own project.  The value of the belief (and why it must be clung to) is that it is a deferral of a need &#8211; into a future &#8211; in an effort to get rid of it. And (curiously enough) the future the belief fantasises is one where all need (and needing) is abolished.</p>
<p>The &#8216;environment&#8217; is made the scapegoat (or the cover-story) for the believer&#8217;s refusal to live in it.  The &#8216;sceptic&#8217; becomes the environmentalist&#8217;s terrorist&#8230; forever threatening him with the self-knowledge of his own appetite and free will &#8211; and the space in which it can be explored and met.</p>
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		<title>By: geoffchambers</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1877</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffchambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1877</guid>
		<description>While I appreciate your effort to concentrate on the big picture, you must accept that human nature being what it is, we’re all going to be fascinated by the titbits in the Climategate files for weeks and months to come. And since your whole blog is about insisting that human nature trumps Nature, you should be happy to accept this and go with the flow.
This is an English story, and everything touching FOI demands, or possible prosecution, or the political or media aspects, demands the maximum input from England, since it’s so culture-specific. As far as I know, there’s only yourselves, Omniclimate, Bishop Hill, and Harmless Skies in the English blogosphere where relevant comments can be made. It would be great if someone would open specific threads to deal with this, maybe under the headings of the leaked material, the media coverage, the political reaction etc. There’s a thousand comments on Monbiot’s article in less than 24 hours, but what’s the point, as who will read them?
Like Luke, I’d love to see your detailed take on the leaked material. Even without, why not drop your academic political science guard/mask a little, do what everyone else is doing, and give us some random thoughts we can react to. Or as His Grace might say (in his current mood) c’mon and party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I appreciate your effort to concentrate on the big picture, you must accept that human nature being what it is, we’re all going to be fascinated by the titbits in the Climategate files for weeks and months to come. And since your whole blog is about insisting that human nature trumps Nature, you should be happy to accept this and go with the flow.<br />
This is an English story, and everything touching FOI demands, or possible prosecution, or the political or media aspects, demands the maximum input from England, since it’s so culture-specific. As far as I know, there’s only yourselves, Omniclimate, Bishop Hill, and Harmless Skies in the English blogosphere where relevant comments can be made. It would be great if someone would open specific threads to deal with this, maybe under the headings of the leaked material, the media coverage, the political reaction etc. There’s a thousand comments on Monbiot’s article in less than 24 hours, but what’s the point, as who will read them?<br />
Like Luke, I’d love to see your detailed take on the leaked material. Even without, why not drop your academic political science guard/mask a little, do what everyone else is doing, and give us some random thoughts we can react to. Or as His Grace might say (in his current mood) c’mon and party.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Warmer</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1876</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Warmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1876</guid>
		<description>Eds. - apologies I think Creepy thought I was an alarmist.

The HS was enormously influential in making people believe.  I did over 50 Gore-like presentations  (mainly in-company) using a) the CO2 1,000 year hockey stick from UN and then b) a temperature one to &#039;prove&#039; global warming.  I think it had a massive impact as it effectively removed the Lamb figure from the table i.e. the MWP and the LIA which were always awkward. (it was usually followed by the low res Vostok one).

1,000 years was also enough to mask the 100 year profile with recent variations.

I therefore think it creates &#039;cod&#039; scientific certainty which is necessary to &#039;get&#039; the religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eds. &#8211; apologies I think Creepy thought I was an alarmist.</p>
<p>The HS was enormously influential in making people believe.  I did over 50 Gore-like presentations  (mainly in-company) using a) the CO2 1,000 year hockey stick from UN and then b) a temperature one to &#8216;prove&#8217; global warming.  I think it had a massive impact as it effectively removed the Lamb figure from the table i.e. the MWP and the LIA which were always awkward. (it was usually followed by the low res Vostok one).</p>
<p>1,000 years was also enough to mask the 100 year profile with recent variations.</p>
<p>I therefore think it creates &#8216;cod&#8217; scientific certainty which is necessary to &#8216;get&#8217; the religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Editors</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1875</link>
		<dc:creator>Editors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1875</guid>
		<description>Guys (esp. &#039;Creepy&#039;), the point of the post above is to say that the postmortem of the hockey stick isn&#039;t necessary, because even if it had been entirely debunked (and we&#039;re not claiming that it has), it does not mean the death of environmentalism or climate alarmism.

The fact is that the HS didn&#039;t do much for environmentalism anyway - environmental politics remained the sport of the establishment, because it failed to find popular support; and scientific certainty was not needed for the creation of political institutions prior to the HS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys (esp. &#8216;Creepy&#8217;), the point of the post above is to say that the postmortem of the hockey stick isn&#8217;t necessary, because even if it had been entirely debunked (and we&#8217;re not claiming that it has), it does not mean the death of environmentalism or climate alarmism.</p>
<p>The fact is that the HS didn&#8217;t do much for environmentalism anyway &#8211; environmental politics remained the sport of the establishment, because it failed to find popular support; and scientific certainty was not needed for the creation of political institutions prior to the HS.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Warmer</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1874</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Warmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1874</guid>
		<description>Creepy - I&#039;m sorry was that an apology?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Creepy &#8211; I&#8217;m sorry was that an apology?</p>
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		<title>By: Creepy</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1873</link>
		<dc:creator>Creepy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1873</guid>
		<description>Just see the twice the program comments:

&quot;Uses “corrected” MXD – but shouldn’t usually
; plot past 1960 because these will be artificially adjusted to look closer to
; the real temperatures.&quot;

This is the &quot;trick&quot; and &quot;hide&quot; section.
Six days later the answer contains

&quot;; Specify period over which to compute the regressions (stop in 1960 to avoid
; the decline&quot;

In full here:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/22/cru-emails-may-be-open-to-interpretation-but-commented-code-by-the-programmer-tells-the-real-story/#more-13065

The Briffa hockey stick is made of very selected and very few trees, with almost no real significance.
Tree rings from other trees at almost the same geological position show exactly the opposite.
I really can&#039;t understand why people take such a cherrypicked piece of faulty data like Briffa HS as serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just see the twice the program comments:</p>
<p>&#8220;Uses “corrected” MXD – but shouldn’t usually<br />
; plot past 1960 because these will be artificially adjusted to look closer to<br />
; the real temperatures.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the &#8220;trick&#8221; and &#8220;hide&#8221; section.<br />
Six days later the answer contains</p>
<p>&#8220;; Specify period over which to compute the regressions (stop in 1960 to avoid<br />
; the decline&#8221;</p>
<p>In full here:</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/22/cru-emails-may-be-open-to-interpretation-but-commented-code-by-the-programmer-tells-the-real-story/#more-13065" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/22/cru-emails-may-be-open-to-interpretation-but-commented-code-by-the-programmer-tells-the-real-story/#more-13065</a></p>
<p>The Briffa hockey stick is made of very selected and very few trees, with almost no real significance.<br />
Tree rings from other trees at almost the same geological position show exactly the opposite.<br />
I really can&#8217;t understand why people take such a cherrypicked piece of faulty data like Briffa HS as serious.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Warmer</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1872</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Warmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1872</guid>
		<description>Creepy don&#039;t follow you at all:

The HS is still powerful whatever Finnish TV says.  That&#039;s why people still use it. (not necessarily scientists but well-meaning warmers)

Quote from 942777075.txt
&quot;I&#039;ve just completed Mike&#039;s Nature &lt;b&gt;trick&lt;/b&gt; of adding in the real temps
to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from
1961 for Keith&#039;s to &lt;b&gt;hide the decline&lt;/b&gt;.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Creepy don&#8217;t follow you at all:</p>
<p>The HS is still powerful whatever Finnish TV says.  That&#8217;s why people still use it. (not necessarily scientists but well-meaning warmers)</p>
<p>Quote from 942777075.txt<br />
&#8220;I&#8217;ve just completed Mike&#8217;s Nature <b>trick</b> of adding in the real temps<br />
to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from<br />
1961 for Keith&#8217;s to <b>hide the decline</b>.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Creepy</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1871</link>
		<dc:creator>Creepy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1871</guid>
		<description>Luke, you&#039;re so behind time.

Your &quot;hockey stick&quot; is dismantled... ultimately.
See the latest update some days ago from finnish scientists.

&quot;Climate catastrophe cancelled&quot;
http://www.science-skeptical.de/blog/finnische-tv-doku-deckt-fehler-in-der-klimawissenschaft-auf/001004/

Finnish TV debunks errors in climate science.

And further, your state of knowledge about CRU needs some actual update.
This &quot;trick&quot; is debunked, and the &quot;hide to decline&quot; pops up at another passage in the files as &quot;how to avoid the decline&quot; with a clear meaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luke, you&#8217;re so behind time.</p>
<p>Your &#8220;hockey stick&#8221; is dismantled&#8230; ultimately.<br />
See the latest update some days ago from finnish scientists.</p>
<p>&#8220;Climate catastrophe cancelled&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.science-skeptical.de/blog/finnische-tv-doku-deckt-fehler-in-der-klimawissenschaft-auf/001004/" rel="nofollow">http://www.science-skeptical.de/blog/finnische-tv-doku-deckt-fehler-in-der-klimawissenschaft-auf/001004/</a></p>
<p>Finnish TV debunks errors in climate science.</p>
<p>And further, your state of knowledge about CRU needs some actual update.<br />
This &#8220;trick&#8221; is debunked, and the &#8220;hide to decline&#8221; pops up at another passage in the files as &#8220;how to avoid the decline&#8221; with a clear meaning.</p>
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		<title>By: truthseeker</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2009/11/hacking-the-climate-da-vinci-code.html#comment-1870</link>
		<dc:creator>truthseeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=415#comment-1870</guid>
		<description>Wikipedia articles that should record this event in a neutral and balanced manner, with journalist-written sources (best to discuss on the talk page, don&#039;t just start editing directly):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_e-mail_hacking_incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Jones_(climatologist)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_E._Mann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wikipedia articles that should record this event in a neutral and balanced manner, with journalist-written sources (best to discuss on the talk page, don&#8217;t just start editing directly):</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_e-mail_hacking_incident" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_e-mail_hacking_incident</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Jones_(climatologist)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Jones_(climatologist)</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_E._Mann" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_E._Mann</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy</a></p>
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