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	<title>Comments for Climate Resistance</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org</link>
	<description>Challenging Climate Orthodoxy</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:21:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by Myrrdin Seren</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41924</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrrdin Seren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41924</guid>
		<description>Ben,

I have always admired your prose since following a link to C-R quite some time back.

Much hilarity on the train today reading the latest evolution of your blogging in your last three posts, in which we get

halfwit eco-baroness
big-headed climate twonk
slightly thick Guardian eco-hack; and
deranged lawyer !

ROFLMAO - more power to you !

It occured to me there is a common link in all this, when I also read this Forbes piece

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/02/07/glencore-hysteria-of-the-day/

also bursting the Guardian&#039;s bubble. 


It&#039;s the Guardian - it&#039;s a health hazard !  Too much exposure is probably not good for you.

Pending a peer-reviewed study on the deleterious effects of prolonged Guardian exposure and why we need evidence-based policy to mitigate the worst impacts of Catastrophic Guardian Exposure, limiting your browsing there is probably recommended  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<p>I have always admired your prose since following a link to C-R quite some time back.</p>
<p>Much hilarity on the train today reading the latest evolution of your blogging in your last three posts, in which we get</p>
<p>halfwit eco-baroness<br />
big-headed climate twonk<br />
slightly thick Guardian eco-hack; and<br />
deranged lawyer !</p>
<p>ROFLMAO &#8211; more power to you !</p>
<p>It occured to me there is a common link in all this, when I also read this Forbes piece</p>
<p><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/02/07/glencore-hysteria-of-the-day/" rel="nofollow">http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/02/07/glencore-hysteria-of-the-day/</a></p>
<p>also bursting the Guardian&#8217;s bubble. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s the Guardian &#8211; it&#8217;s a health hazard !  Too much exposure is probably not good for you.</p>
<p>Pending a peer-reviewed study on the deleterious effects of prolonged Guardian exposure and why we need evidence-based policy to mitigate the worst impacts of Catastrophic Guardian Exposure, limiting your browsing there is probably recommended  <img src='http://www.climate-resistance.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by Chris Cooper</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41923</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41923</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the climate-dissent-free teaching demanded by the National Council for Science Education in he States will produce the sort of modified humanity required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the climate-dissent-free teaching demanded by the National Council for Science Education in he States will produce the sort of modified humanity required.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41850</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41850</guid>
		<description>I did say, &quot;&lt;i&gt;verging&lt;/i&gt; on tautology&quot;. Both spectacle and ritual require the use of special dramatic language too. I notice &quot;ocean acidification&quot; for &quot;falling pH&quot;, &quot;negative sea level rise&quot; for &quot;sea level fall&quot;, temperatures have &quot;flatlined&quot; for &quot;failed to show a trend&quot;.

&quot;And lastly through a hogshead of real fire!&quot; Perhaps we could understand science and politics as exhibited today by going to the circus. I&#039;ll look forward to Harry the Horse dancing the waltz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did say, &#8220;<i>verging</i> on tautology&#8221;. Both spectacle and ritual require the use of special dramatic language too. I notice &#8220;ocean acidification&#8221; for &#8220;falling pH&#8221;, &#8220;negative sea level rise&#8221; for &#8220;sea level fall&#8221;, temperatures have &#8220;flatlined&#8221; for &#8220;failed to show a trend&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;And lastly through a hogshead of real fire!&#8221; Perhaps we could understand science and politics as exhibited today by going to the circus. I&#8217;ll look forward to Harry the Horse dancing the waltz.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by geoffchambers</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41829</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffchambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41829</guid>
		<description>Ben (comment 12)
The  “performance science” you link to is in fact a reprint of a news release posted on the website of the University of California Santa Barbara. It’s ritual alright, but journalistic ritual. It says something about a science project (scientists are testing the Ph level of the oceans to find out whether your car’s exhaust fumes are stressing penguins) and then says it again and again in each new paragraph. The Guardian and the Independent used to print article like this almost every day, but they stopped a few years back. (Possibly the science journalists became embarrassed). 
The scientific content can be summed up in five words: changes in ocean acidity affect life. Or three: “change affects life”. The rest is a roll call of scientists and the exotic locations where they work. 
It’s surely no coincidence that the University of California website which publishes it, like the Oxford University magazine linked to by Q in Comment 1, resembles those free magazines put out by supermarkets, which try so desperately to interest you in their wares.
One quasi-scientific factoid emerges from the article: that acidity varies from place to place. Like temperature, and almost any other variable you can mention. Which is good (for scientists) because without variation to measure, they’d really have very little to do. Nor would we arts graduates, come to that, since change and variability is what life’s about. 
There seems to be a whole generation of biologists who don’t like life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben (comment 12)<br />
The  “performance science” you link to is in fact a reprint of a news release posted on the website of the University of California Santa Barbara. It’s ritual alright, but journalistic ritual. It says something about a science project (scientists are testing the Ph level of the oceans to find out whether your car’s exhaust fumes are stressing penguins) and then says it again and again in each new paragraph. The Guardian and the Independent used to print article like this almost every day, but they stopped a few years back. (Possibly the science journalists became embarrassed).<br />
The scientific content can be summed up in five words: changes in ocean acidity affect life. Or three: “change affects life”. The rest is a roll call of scientists and the exotic locations where they work.<br />
It’s surely no coincidence that the University of California website which publishes it, like the Oxford University magazine linked to by Q in Comment 1, resembles those free magazines put out by supermarkets, which try so desperately to interest you in their wares.<br />
One quasi-scientific factoid emerges from the article: that acidity varies from place to place. Like temperature, and almost any other variable you can mention. Which is good (for scientists) because without variation to measure, they’d really have very little to do. Nor would we arts graduates, come to that, since change and variability is what life’s about.<br />
There seems to be a whole generation of biologists who don’t like life.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by Ben Pile</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41821</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Pile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41821</guid>
		<description>Rich - &lt;i&gt; “Performance politics” is verging on tautology. Now “Performance science”?&lt;/i&gt;

I thoguht this might qualify as performance science: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.skepticalscience.com/Major-Study-of-Ocean-Acidification_USCB.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Major Study of Ocean Acidification Helps Scientists Evaluate Effects of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide on Marine Life&lt;/a&gt;. Science as spectacle. Actually, I think of it more as a ritual. It doesn&#039;t actually create any new knowledge as such, but affirms the beliefs and other structures etc. 

I don&#039;t agree that &#039;performance politics&#039; is tautologous, though. Of course there&#039;s a performance aspect to politics. And that&#039;s almost all there is left. See some previous posts about &#039;pastiche politics&#039;, in which people have flattered themselves by comparing their own situation to that of a moment in the past. The popular ones are &#039;the New Deal&#039;, the moon landing, the suffragettes, and things from WW2 variously. Once you take the view that you only have to dress up as Churchill, it kind of does away with all the substance of politics -- the ideas, ambitions, interests, philosophies... There &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; be more to it than simply acting out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich &#8211; <i> “Performance politics” is verging on tautology. Now “Performance science”?</i></p>
<p>I thoguht this might qualify as performance science: <a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/Major-Study-of-Ocean-Acidification_USCB.html" rel="nofollow">Major Study of Ocean Acidification Helps Scientists Evaluate Effects of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide on Marine Life</a>. Science as spectacle. Actually, I think of it more as a ritual. It doesn&#8217;t actually create any new knowledge as such, but affirms the beliefs and other structures etc. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t agree that &#8216;performance politics&#8217; is tautologous, though. Of course there&#8217;s a performance aspect to politics. And that&#8217;s almost all there is left. See some previous posts about &#8216;pastiche politics&#8217;, in which people have flattered themselves by comparing their own situation to that of a moment in the past. The popular ones are &#8216;the New Deal&#8217;, the moon landing, the suffragettes, and things from WW2 variously. Once you take the view that you only have to dress up as Churchill, it kind of does away with all the substance of politics &#8212; the ideas, ambitions, interests, philosophies&#8230; There <i>should</i> be more to it than simply acting out.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by Mooloo</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41796</link>
		<dc:creator>Mooloo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41796</guid>
		<description>Ranjit – &lt;i&gt;What’s precisely wrong about modifying human beings to respond to climate change?&lt;/i&gt;

Most all of the climate worriers are violently opposed to modifying &lt;b&gt;maize&lt;/b&gt;! Apparently that is playing God with nature.

Cloning a sheep, which involves the exact opposite of modification, is also beyond the pale.

Personally, I can&#039;t see much of a moral issue with genetically modifying people who volunteer for the process. However I imagine I will remain in a small minority for a long time yet. (And I sure won&#039;t ever be volunteering in order to meet someone else&#039;s political goals.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ranjit – <i>What’s precisely wrong about modifying human beings to respond to climate change?</i></p>
<p>Most all of the climate worriers are violently opposed to modifying <b>maize</b>! Apparently that is playing God with nature.</p>
<p>Cloning a sheep, which involves the exact opposite of modification, is also beyond the pale.</p>
<p>Personally, I can&#8217;t see much of a moral issue with genetically modifying people who volunteer for the process. However I imagine I will remain in a small minority for a long time yet. (And I sure won&#8217;t ever be volunteering in order to meet someone else&#8217;s political goals.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by Ben Pile</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41789</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Pile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 02:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41789</guid>
		<description>Ranjit - &lt;i&gt;What’s precisely wrong about modifying human beings to respond to climate change?&lt;/i&gt;

1. We don&#039;t know what kind of problem climate change is. Modifying a human would be no more meaningful than getting a tattoo of Gaia. 
2. We don&#039;t know what the modification the authors consider is. Hence, I didn&#039;t say &#039;this is wrong&#039;. 
3. If you want to get modified in the name of climate change, that is surely up to you. I&#039;m not getting modified for climate change. 
4. The point of the above post is to highlight that discussions about the future -- in academia and politics -- are not about what could or should happen, but about negatively defining it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ranjit &#8211; <i>What’s precisely wrong about modifying human beings to respond to climate change?</i></p>
<p>1. We don&#8217;t know what kind of problem climate change is. Modifying a human would be no more meaningful than getting a tattoo of Gaia.<br />
2. We don&#8217;t know what the modification the authors consider is. Hence, I didn&#8217;t say &#8216;this is wrong&#8217;.<br />
3. If you want to get modified in the name of climate change, that is surely up to you. I&#8217;m not getting modified for climate change.<br />
4. The point of the above post is to highlight that discussions about the future &#8212; in academia and politics &#8212; are not about what could or should happen, but about negatively defining it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by Alex Cull</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41747</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Cull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41747</guid>
		<description>@Vinny, I think I&#039;ve found the Liao/Roache paper you mentioned, about mood enhancement drugs - it&#039;s here:
http://oxford.academia.edu/RebeccaRoache/Papers/199961/After_Prozac

&lt;blockquote&gt;Mood enhancement could also benefit the community as a whole. Consider that many societal problems are the result of collective action problems, according to which individuals do not cooperate for the common good. In a number of cases, the impact of any particular individual&#039;s attempt to address a particular problem may be negligible, whereas the impact of a large group of individuals working together may be huge. For example, while air travel contributes to climate change, individuals may see little reason to avoid travelling by air, since commercial planes will make their journeys regardless of whether or not any particular individual decides to travel. However, if people were generally more willing to act as a group, and could be confident that others would do the same, we may be able to enjoy the sort of benefits that arise only when large numbers of people act together.

Mood enhancement drugs could potentially help with such collective action problems.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

O brave new world. That has such people in&#039;t! http://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html

&lt;blockquote&gt;And if ever, by some unlucky chance, anything unpleasant should somehow happen, why, there&#039;s always soma to give you a holiday from the facts. And there&#039;s always soma to calm your anger, to reconcile you to your enemies, to make you patient and long-suffering. In the past you could only accomplish these things by making a great effort and after years of hard moral training. Now, you swallow two or three half-gramme tablets, and there you are. Anybody can be virtuous now.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Vinny, I think I&#8217;ve found the Liao/Roache paper you mentioned, about mood enhancement drugs &#8211; it&#8217;s here:<br />
<a href="http://oxford.academia.edu/RebeccaRoache/Papers/199961/After_Prozac" rel="nofollow">http://oxford.academia.edu/RebeccaRoache/Papers/199961/After_Prozac</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Mood enhancement could also benefit the community as a whole. Consider that many societal problems are the result of collective action problems, according to which individuals do not cooperate for the common good. In a number of cases, the impact of any particular individual&#8217;s attempt to address a particular problem may be negligible, whereas the impact of a large group of individuals working together may be huge. For example, while air travel contributes to climate change, individuals may see little reason to avoid travelling by air, since commercial planes will make their journeys regardless of whether or not any particular individual decides to travel. However, if people were generally more willing to act as a group, and could be confident that others would do the same, we may be able to enjoy the sort of benefits that arise only when large numbers of people act together.</p>
<p>Mood enhancement drugs could potentially help with such collective action problems.</p></blockquote>
<p>O brave new world. That has such people in&#8217;t! <a href="http://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p>And if ever, by some unlucky chance, anything unpleasant should somehow happen, why, there&#8217;s always soma to give you a holiday from the facts. And there&#8217;s always soma to calm your anger, to reconcile you to your enemies, to make you patient and long-suffering. In the past you could only accomplish these things by making a great effort and after years of hard moral training. Now, you swallow two or three half-gramme tablets, and there you are. Anybody can be virtuous now.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>Comment on Rio +20: Not About the Environment, After All&#8230; by Alex Cull</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/rio-20-not-about-the-environment-after-all.html#comment-41746</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Cull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1273#comment-41746</guid>
		<description>On June 18th this year, we have the G20 summit in Los Cabos, Mexico, attended by a group of people including the leaders and finance ministers from the G20 countries, who will gather to decide on some sort of a plan for the global economy. This ends on June 19th.

The very next day, on June 20th, we have the Rio +20 summit, attended by a group of people including (as far as I know) no leaders or finance ministers from the G20 countries, who will also gather to decide on some sort of a roadmap for the global economy.

Two summits, both in Latin America, both in the same week, both with an agenda to determine the fate of the world economy, and attended, seemingly, by two completely different sets of people.

Is there anyone else who finds this arrangement just a little bizarre?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On June 18th this year, we have the G20 summit in Los Cabos, Mexico, attended by a group of people including the leaders and finance ministers from the G20 countries, who will gather to decide on some sort of a plan for the global economy. This ends on June 19th.</p>
<p>The very next day, on June 20th, we have the Rio +20 summit, attended by a group of people including (as far as I know) no leaders or finance ministers from the G20 countries, who will also gather to decide on some sort of a roadmap for the global economy.</p>
<p>Two summits, both in Latin America, both in the same week, both with an agenda to determine the fate of the world economy, and attended, seemingly, by two completely different sets of people.</p>
<p>Is there anyone else who finds this arrangement just a little bizarre?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Engineering Humans by geoffchambers</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-resistance.org/2012/02/engineering-humans.html#comment-41728</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffchambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-resistance.org/?p=1275#comment-41728</guid>
		<description>“The Future of Humanity Institute is the leading research centre looking at big-picture questions for human civilization .. using the tools of mathematics, philosophy, and science ..” 

Big-picture questions? Do they mean, like “Where’s Wally?”?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The Future of Humanity Institute is the leading research centre looking at big-picture questions for human civilization .. using the tools of mathematics, philosophy, and science ..” </p>
<p>Big-picture questions? Do they mean, like “Where’s Wally?”?</p>
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